GOP All the Sudden Wants to Raise Taxes: On the Poor and Middle Class

That was the claim. No loop-holes, streamlined tax code.

Not at
Not at all. With Reagans tax cuts came a lot of loophole closures. With Bush's tax cuts actually came bigger loopholes for the poor, earned income credit.

Ryans plan at the end of the year just won't give refund checks unless you purposfully paid in more than what you should have. The poor that work pay these taxes every paycheck and don't see it till they file after Jan so they aren't being strapped with any more fiscal burdens that they didn't already pay. The rich small business owners would no longer pay 35% all year and wait to get a refund, instead they would pay 25% all year and have that extra money to put towards what they choose to use their own money on. In the end, the rich actually pay more and the poor never suffer because they aren't losing anything that they didn't have before.

 

Not necessarily, the poor just wont get that refund check at the end of the year. They have always paid taxes, just usually gotten it all back when they file. This money is usually spent on frivolous things or gives the poor the impression they can ring up their credit cards cause of the refund check coming back to them that they can pay it off with. Ryans plan doesn't take anything more out of the poor's paycheck that they already pay, so there for their lives will not be affected at all when it comes to their budget for food.

 

And with both came real revenues falling significantly and huge growth in budget deficits.

Just what we need!

I'm sure paying less taxes would be nice. The Pass the Buck generation loves tax cuts.

 

Cause you can't guarentee that the next congress will keep those cuts or that they will get made in the first place. Reagan made what he thought was a "3-1" deal, then the congress turned it around on him to a "1-3" cut to tax deal. This BS about making a cut over the next 10 years can never come true cause every 2 years you have a different house which makes its own budget. It would be rediculous to think anyone can get a promise kept in DC and you know it.

 

These also included stimulus spending as you have pointed out that dropped revenue. Ryans plan includes no such stimulus money being handed out.

What part of "overall there would be higher revenue" do you not understand?

Obama tax liability under this system was $175,000.
Obama tax liability under Ryans system: $250,000

50% of the country gets all or more of their paid taxes back under this system. Under Ryan's plan, everyone that works pays something in taxes. How do you not understand that there is more revenue under Ryans plan then under current tax code?

The current tax code gets (easy numbers) ~$4,000,000,000,000 by 31 Dec. But pays back $1,500,000,000,000 to those that get loop holes. By Apr 15th, the IRS only recieved ~$2,500,000,000,000.

Under Ryans plan, the IRS recieves ~$3.93 trillion (takes into account the less amount of the rich paying 25% instead of 35%) by 31 Dec. I am sure people will still be owed some money because of being fired and not making as much as they figured so they over paid, so the IRS would still have ~$3.4 trillion because everyone has paid and no one has exploited the loop holes.

At the end of the calendar year, yes, the currrent system brought more in, but through refunds, credits, and deductions, they have to pay A LOT of that back. Under the Ryan plan, you end up when all is said and done with MORE revenue.

 

Economic recovery and wealth creation for the nation as a whole depends heavily on a strong Middle Class (which the Middle Class has been decimated here recently) and it also depends on economic mobility for the poor and Middle Class. Small business is also important. Several reasons why we have "jobless economic recoveries" is because the Middle Class has been decimated and it's harder for small business to stay in business, but the big dogs who are the big corporations and their rich stakeholders have been doing quite well. But that doesn't translate into jobs for Americans who are also increasingly becoming more disenfranchised.

The current path the US is on, is the path towards a third world banana republic where a few hold all the wealth and the rest are poor. We are fast on track to ceasing to be a super-power and it's important to reverse course, candidly speaking. We have already lost our AAA credit rating and that was just a warning to us about worse to come if we don't reverse course. The Tea Party essentially came into existence to help keep this current status quo that we are currently on and to make sure all the regressive policies stay in place. This is accomplished by opposing some of Obama's policies and also demonizing Obama.

 

I apologize for the double post. Albert, there is nothing you can do about idiots like Michael Moore. You took an oath when you became a soldier. Soldiers do as their told when their told. Soldier duties are spelled out in the oath that is taken, military law, regulation and that is the prime concern of a soldier. You fulfilled your oath and did your duty for your country and be proud. Don't let people like Michael Moore get to you. You fought so others may have a voice. When it comes to war, unless somebody has "been there done that" they are pretty much ignorant to it all. Some people think war is like playing the game "Call of Duty" but it's no video game or Hollywood movie. Thanks for your service.

 

So the fact that the wars are unconstitutional.. and motivated by Imperialism and resource control dont bother you huh? You were betrayed long before that.. you just realized it when somebody you didnt like pointed it out.

 

This is an internal memo from citibank. Citibank and goldman Sachs.. Jp Morgan.. they control economic policy in this country by infiltrating regulatory positions in the government, affecting policy and exploiting thier created policy after they quit government.

This memo is their frame of mind.. it isnt doctored or falsified in any manner. The tone in this memo demonstrates the frame of mind.. its simply what is and the world they are striving to create.

http://www.box.net/shared/9if6v2hr9h

 

And now this from the Republican party. Will the voters ever get a fair shake?

http://news.yahoo.com/gop-using-redistricting-shore-house-majority-174955135.html

"All is fair in love and war" seems to be precisely the game that the Republican Party and their rich backers are playing.

 

What part about "I find it hard to believe" do you not understand?

Obama tax liability under this system was $175,000.
Obama tax liability under Ryans system: $250,000

50% of the country gets all or more of their paid taxes back under this system. Under Ryan's plan, everyone that works pays something in taxes. How do you not understand that there is more revenue under Ryans plan then under current tax code?[/quote]

So he's cutting the taxes on the richest and increasing taxes on the poorest.

I suppose I can believe that.

I don't think those numbers are even close to reflecting reality. Tax refunds are paid when too much is withheld from a paycheck.

Please show my the analysis that calculates under Ryan's plan revenues will be $3.93 or whatever trillion. Whether because of a "loophole" or anything else is irrelevant.

 

Unconstitutional how?

 

So he's cutting the taxes on the richest and increasing taxes on the poorest.

I suppose I can believe that. [/quote]You don't know that $250,000 > $175,000? How do you say when the rich pay more in taxes, that they are getting a cut?

And that "too much withheld" is because of the credits and deductions (loopholes) that can't be accounted for during the year. Yes those numbers are exact, but that is the scenario of the current system. The IRS collect a lot thrughout the year, but has to pay 50% of Americans all or more than what they paid in, thus lowering how much they actually collected.

I already admitted this was just a scenario and the numbers might not be that high, but they will be higher under Ryans plan after Apr 15th than they would be under the current system on the same day. It will take some research to figure out how much everyone pays and what their tax liability would be under Ryans plan, but give me some time to see if I can get the numbers.

 

a great blog post:
http://infrequentrant.blogspot.com/2011/09/is-obama-crazy.html

 

The effective federal tax rate by quintile of income:
2007
Lowest -6.8%
Second -0.4%
Third 3.3%
Fourth 6.2%
Highest 14.4%

The payroll tax (Medicare tax and SS)
2007
Lowest 8.8%
Second 9.5%
Third 9.4%
Fourth 9.5%
Highest 5.7%

Combined above:
Lowest -6.8%+8.8%=2%
Second -0.4%+9.5%=9.1%
Third 3.3%+9.4%=12.7%
Fourth 6.2%+9.5%=15.7%
Highest 14.4%+5.7%=20.1%

So the rich aren't paying their fair share of taxes?



data from
http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts/displayafact.cfm?Docid=456

 

What about Capital gains and stock options?

 

No. To be fair the wealthiest should pay 90% of the income tax. Paying ten times the amount of the other 90% would be a fair match of income to income tax between the richest 10% and the other 90% on an average household income basis.

 

And why not. The conservatives represent the simple and the wealthy, they tell the simple to vote for them (and they do), and obey the ones who own them (and they do).