Government is immoral.

Hello, I am a voluntaryist/Market Anarchist/Agorist. Now, you may be a believer in government and never really questioned whether government was right to exist in the first place.

Why should one man be able to force another man to put his money and labor towards something, against his will? Are some men just divinely superior? This is the function of government, to allow a small group of men rule over a larger group. Using violence against innocent people isn't right, and it cannot be justified.

I believe that people should be able to do what they would like, as long as they don't hurt anyone else.

The tax collector and the thief differ only in their perceived moral legitimacy, their function is the same.

 

"..as long as they don't hurt anyone else". How does one deal with the men who choose to hurt you? Wouldn't that require some form of .. government?

 

Or rule by the gun. I'm sure some would prefer going back to their roots to prove their point as those that oppose it would do so only once.

 

What astounds me are how many people profess these beliefs when they can be proven to be ridiculous in a matter of 5 seconds.

 

If men were angels, there would be no government. However, we are evil, hate filled, and selfish at heart. We need government (and religion) to keep us in line. That's why anarchism will never work.

 

Government isn't immoral, its comprised of people; thus its the people who are immoral.

 

This isn't entirely true.

 

Read James Madison's Federalist No.10. It will provide you with a fundamental reason why we need government.

 

Well, yeah, we have morals. It's the only thing keeping us from killing each other.

 

You sure about that?

 

How does one deal with governments that choose to hurt you?

 

AKA Government.

 

Because angels could never bring themselves to operate such an institution.

The selfish are never evil nor hate filled.

In line to the gas chambers.

 

Morals are more often used to justify killing than to prevent it.

 

Yours or mine?

 

Both, and All.

 

How does one deal with society as a whole? Not just government, but business and average citizens that can hurt you. I don't reserve this ability to political institutions.

 

Yes, but only one of the three has the legal "right" to do so for any reason it dictates.

 

But aren't governments subject to the same failings?

 

If people lived in a vacuum, that would probably work; in reality we affect one another. So, what you believe won't actually work.

 

I think government is like guns. You can't really say that guns are immoral. Sure, they're instruments of violence, but I think we can all agree that guns have been used for good purposes. It's all in what you do with it, that makes a gun or a government good or evil.

 

A non-government system has never in the history of mankind worked without massive corruption and general hellishness.

It's an ideal that's a fantasy like communism (pure communism not like China communism which is barely communism). Neither has a chance to work. Both are believed in by people unwilling to accept reality.

 

Massive corruption of what? General hellishness... caused by what?

 

My personal belief is that people are basically good and organizations aren't. Goverments are the most powerful organizations.

I like to consider myself a logical anarchist. I wish there could be no government but there has to be. So, like the gentlemen who wrote the Constitution, I realize it's our job to control the government and not the government's job to control us.

 

Yes, well said.
We must be critical of Gov, any Gov. Its our job, as those who are to be represented, not controlled, by it.
How can we possible be willing to submit to giving away our freedom?