Greece: Even crazier than we thought.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-31055069

In the lead up to the Greek elections, people said that Syriza "might" win but I predicted they would definitely win. After they won, the stock market didn't drop right away because people thought they wouldn't fight the EU even though they won. Then, Greek stocks dropped 25% when people couldn't deny where things were headed anymore. I knew they would go there myself, but I must say that this latest development left even me, a real pessimist over this situation, shocked. I thought that the "troika" would not want to negotiate with them and here they are, saying that they won't negotiate with the troika.

It's crazy. Just totally, absolutely they-think-they're-batman crazy. If they won't negotiate with the so-called troika then they can't even begin to seek what they claim they want. If they have any sanity whatsoever (and I'm not convinced they do) then this could only be taken as a sign that they want to leave the Eurozone.

So what do ya'll think?

 

I think they should do an Iceland.

Yeah, that'd be real interesting.

 

Yes, it looks just a little bit crazy but you know everyone thought Einstein, Henry Ford, Salvador Dali and Napoleon Bonaparte crazy. I believe that it is wrong to condemn Greece and the Greek people. They know about democracy more than we.

 

That was true thousands of years ago but the ancient Greek intellectual tradition is not continuing on in Greece. The closest things to Aristotle, Plato and Pericles that has a mainstream following is probably found in America.

 

Why not leave the Eurozone? Why not do away with the Euro entirely? It wasn't a good idea to begin with.

 

The first thing that Tsipras did was to stop the sale of Greek properties to foreigners. Germany wanted to put the whole country up for sale. He feels he can get the money from the Greek oligarchs to pay the debts, but I'm not sure he can. In the meantime Greece is in a very strategic location, and someone in the Duma said Russia should buy up its debt so I really don't know what's going on. The first audience Tsipras had was with the Russian ambassador.

China has large investments in Greece, and Russia would like to use the sea ports. They both told Tsipras that if he pulls out of the Eurozone they will support him. Tsipras managed to stop the EU from imposing new sanctions on Russia, and Russia in turn is stopping the embargo on Greek products. I'm worried though about the Greek people, because things do take time, and they do need money quickly. Also what if Washington tries for another regime change? And then there is Turkey. Its jets and warships have become very aggressive lately. Will Russia be able to control Erdogan, he is a megalomaniac.

 

Most observers and economists think that the Eurozone and the Euro inflated Europe's standard of living beyond what it can be without it.

 

Perhaps, but then it's trying to accomplish this end in a deeply flawed system, taking on those flaws accordingly.

Better not to have the fiat currencies and the usury-based banking and financial system that created them. That system is why the gold standard was eventually abandoned, and that system is why nations are in ridiculous amounts of debt now.

 

Well the Greek people used to sucking on the teet of big govt finally elect a govt that threatens - let us suck on European teet or we'll cause havok.

Remove the Marxist cancer from the EU is the only answer, they'll never stop spending other peoples money otherwise. They want communism, let them have it and all the poverty, theft and murder that comes with it.

 

Well, an end of usury and a return to the gold standard sounds good on paper, but the reality of a breakup of the Eurozone is still going to be more usury and more paper money.

 

There's probably a case to be made that the EU (especially Germany) has benefited from its eastward expansion and the resultant cheap labor force available. Poland, for instance, doesn't so much make many complete things, only parts for German things. It's outsourcing to a cheap labor market.

Even given that, the EU has not recovered from the 2008 recession , is about to launch its own QE, and some countries already employ negative interest rates.

Maybe Greece isn't so crazy.

 

Why? Because of how things are done these days? I'm sure you're right if you mean they'd return to national currencies issued the same way they usually are in this day and age, i.e. without a gold or silver standard, but then that's because the banks rule and the people drool It would take a significant movement among a given national population for a precious metal standard to be brought back.

I was only speaking on principle when I lamented the funny money and its parent system. But, as time goes on and thinking continues to evolve, perhaps we will eventually get back to sound money. It might take a global shake-up in the form of WWIII or something equally upsetting before we get there, though. We got central banks and fiat currencies in the wake of systematic market crashes and associated public inconveniences. The problems were wrongly attributed and the wrong solutions introduced as a consequence. If the current fiat system creates similar problems for John Q. Public, though, then we should see public incentive for another change. It's then that people will finally be slapped across the face and (hopefully) begin to take notice of what is happening.

So far the paper money system has allowed governments and their banks to paper over economic problems, like applying fresh coats of paint to a rotten substructure and refusing to address the underlying problem. When this fails and leads to economic calamity, as it surely must do eventually, then the bubble-blowing fantasies should finally be broken and there should at last be widespread of questioning about what was done wrong and what can be done better in the future.

 

The Greek government cannot possibly stop propertyy sales to EU non Greeks. Law says otherwise

 

They have the poverty now, so what do they lose?

 

Why is it NOT crazy when Trump goes to his lenders and says he can't repay them? The banks either settle for pennies on the dollar or maybe he is too big to fail and they lend him even more money. Maybe Trump is a commie.

 

yeah i have come to the same conclusion we need a fever to get over break the banker flu, i see no way things are going to change the populations are brain stuck on free money out of thin air.

 

Greece had put in a law years ago to stop sales to non Greek citizens, because the Greek islands (there are twenty thousand of them), were being bought up by Germans and it constituted a threat to Greece's territorial integrity. There are many German citizens who are also Turkish nationals, and that is especially threatening considering Erdogan does not accept the Treaty of Lausanne in regard to Cyprus, the Eastern Mediterranean and the Aegean.

Turkish jets and warships make incursions into Greek territorial waters, and they have increased dramatically this past year. Greece was being forced by Brussels to sell off their country to foreign investers, so Tsipras put a stop to it.

China also owns a chunk of the port of Piraeus, and was ready to buy up a lot more...and that was stopped.

 

The only cheap labor market in Greece are the illegal migrants from Albania and Turkey. The Greeks are highly educated so most young people left for Australia and Germany.

Anyway Merkel said that they will not renegotiate the loan agreement, so the question is, will Greece leave the Eurozone? Russia and China said that they will help Greece if it does, and one member of Duma even said that Russia should pay off Greece's loan. I don't know where they would get the money though, because it is over two hundred billion.

One thing is certain, the Greeks are in for a tough time, because they need money by the end of February. Russia might be willing to forward it, if it comes with an agreement to use its ports...which Greece was willing to do before the pressure was put on it by the US and EU.

It makes me wonder if Merkel wants Greece to leave the EU altogether because of its friendliness towards Russia. Greece might leave, and it might also leave Nato and kick out the US bases. Who knows? They've done these things before.

 

you think greece is craZY what about france that loan them the most

 

With a debt like that, Greece would have to be crazy if they didn't say the hell with all of you people, and left the Eurozone and joined Russia and China. The IMF knew austerity did not work, and yet they could care less...so it serves them right. Anyway I think this is going to be the break up of the EU...I knew it would happen someday.

 

Would it? Chinese curse: May you live in interesting time.

Greece received huge money in debt. Now they are saying they don't want to give it back. When I was a child my mom taught me that was a really bad thing to do.

Really, they are just scums of Earth.

 

THE Law wa overturned in the European court.

 

In the US? I think in Norway is more factual.

http://democracyranking.org/ranking...y Ranking v10.12.2013-2013 12 12-FINAL a4.pdf

EU leaders will do their best to prevent such thing from happening. I even think Syrizia said they want to keep the Euro but I can be wrong.


I'm btw still waiting to see a politician who is able to execute such hard and difficult promises like the ones from Alexis Tsipras. I give him no chance. Interesting times lie ahead.

 

I think they have come to an understanding. Erdogan sure cant stand Obama (but then who can) and cut off communication about 6 months ago.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-22/turkish-pm-cuts-ties-us-mulls-de-dollarization-russia

 

If I recall correctly there are two adjectives Gibbons used towards the Greeks in his 'Decline And Fall Of The Roman Empire'; one was industrious, (it is a vibrant culture), and the other was 'volatile', (again it is a vibrant culture ), so taking the volatile into account, let's see how long Tsipras will last.

Frankly I think what happens next has to do with two things. One is Russia, and how much support Greece will get. (They do have the new Bric Development Bank to help out), and how the US will react, especially if Tsipras decides to kick out the American bases and rent its ports to the Russian fleet...which Greece had planned on doing before being stopped.

I read something in a site saying Tsipras sent a letter stating that Germany had no right to give that large a loan to Greece which was burdensome to the German taxpayers, and unsustainable to Greece and harmful to the Greek people.

Oh well, they still have this:

[video=youtube;6D15ZT8AWv4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6D15ZT8AWv4[/video]