Green Hydrogen investment by private enterprise set to revolutionise the energy industry

I was listening to Andrew “Twiggy” Forrest talk about this just tonight. Now Andrew is a REAL billionaire and made his money from iron ore - revolutionising the production so he is someone who knows a thing or two about how to change how things are done

https://www.theguardian.com/austral...d-ammonia-project-to-be-powered-by-renewables

And he is not the only nor is QLD the only site

https://reneweconomy.com.au/reveale...behind-15bn-desert-bloom-green-hydrogen-plan/

Who said there was no money in renewables?

 

So, I hear you ask - what on this planet or the next is “Green Hydrogen”?

https://www.abc.net.au/news/science...e-energy-climate-emissions-explainer/13081872

 

So, the only thing that is "green" about this is the fantasy that it was produced by "green" energy to release the hydrogen..... ok.

When you look at the carbon footprint of "green" energy, it just never seems to include the cost or process of having created it... or the cost to the environment from running it, or well, you get it.

Hydrogen could be an awesome addition to the energy market. It just seems to take a lot of energy to produce it. What is the break even point and when do we get there?

 

Looks like Queensland government is trying to have it both ways.
Queensland Government Backs Coal and Green Hydrogen
2021 › 10 › 11 › queensland-government-backs-coal-and-green-hydrogen
unveiling green hydrogen projects Queensland will keep supporting fossil fuels despite green energy advocate ... plant to produce 50,000 tonnes of hydrogen a year for conversion into green ammonia. ... But despite talking . . .

 

Oh! The humanity!

 

You mean the massive solar farms being put in to make the electricity that creates the hydrogen?


Got stats?

 

Sooooo…….this happened when? And the world has not made progress since then??

Besides we are also producing green ammonia which is far less volatile

 

The coal deal is almost dead in the water and unpopular with the base. Don’t forget the current government is a labor govt and they have always been allied with “The Green Party”. We have massive basins of coal in QLD but not a lot of water so the coal has been challenged by available water and possible contamination of artesian water sources. Plus Anastasia is smart enough to know you cannot just stop one industry to start another

This push for green hydrogen is new technology that is coming of age. There is massive interest from around the world with signed multi billion dollar deals already in place. Think of Europe - they can create green hydrogen with offshore wind but we will be using all of that marginal desert land and photovoltaics. Gee I wonder where there might be other places with large uninhabited land areas near Europe?

 

By the way - two new Vanadium mines are going ahead in QLD


vanadium battery installation South Australia

https://www.pv-magazine.com/2021/05...-redox-flow-battery-takes-shape-in-australia/

 

How do you know this isn't just a bunch of hype? You know how giddy the media gets about anything involving “green energy”. But will it pan out?

I will grant that it is a better idea than using hydrogen to power vehicles, since at least this hydrogen does not have to be stored and can be used for something else at the same site.

 

They apparently have a new system that sucks water out of the air to feed their hydrolysis.

I'm all on board with using hydrogen as fuel after electrolosizing it from water with solar electricity. Thats exactly how I plan to do it if I can ever get 'off grid.' Though I have to wonder if this process of getting water from the air might be also be useful to irrigate and grow food in the desert. I also wonder if it negatively effects the precipitation of nearby regions.

 

How much carbon does it take to make solar panels? Install them, maintain them... How much human suffering to produce the raw materials for solar are you going to ignore? You tell us this is all ducky, no need to concern ourselves with the rest of the story, and of course, no need to worry about the heat bloom solar farms create, the amount of waste that occurs when they are end of life, etc.

Explain the amount of energy it takes to create base hydrogen in the first place. It doesn't just "happen". which was the original point. You fantasize about a process that simply doesn't exist at this point. Perhaps in the future it might. But not now. And it is entirely disingenuous to suggest that somehow "renewable" energies exist in the absence of carbon based energy. There is literally nothing "green" then in this model you're touting.

 

It makes one wonder how removing the water vapor from the air to create energy might unbalance the atmospheric blanket that warms our planet. Taking that kind of water out of the atmosphere might have its own significant negative impacts.

 

I have extreme doubt of this hydrogen thing I've heard about this sort of thing all my life.

 

Just a little dark humor.

 

". . . Ms Palaszczuk’s government famously struck a deal with Indian miner Adani for royalties from its controversial $2bn Carmichael mine just days before last year’s October election win.

And she again reiterated her support for fossil fuels on Monday, even after Dr Forrest declared the sector was “in decline”.

“In Queensland, we support the people who work in the coal industry,” Ms Palaszczuk said.

…

Read more: https://www.news.com.au/national/qu...s/news-story/a2e5ad14f341c11c5ace74d9009ca03a . . . . "

 

And yet you dispute man made climate change? Motives may be in question here.

 

That is the one I was talking about - the Galilee Basin near Clermont. It has had a rough ride with multiple legal challenges. I would not invest in it as Australia is slated to start closing coal mines but this coal is being shipped overseas.

if all Tiggy gets his green hydrogen project going expect those mines to start closing

 

Yeah because rain is not a thing

 

I understand nuance isn't your strong suit. But think for a moment what removing all that water vapor from the air might do to the blanket effect of the atmosphere. I suppose the other side effect is all that free oxygen being released as well....

 

At the volume to support the energy needs of the planet, are you suggesting that this won't have any effect?

 

Hmmm.
India has turned out to be a favorite destination for Australian coal. Shipments from Australia to India have grown five-fold in the first three quarters of 2021, rising 503% year on year, to 16.5 million mt in the January-September period, according to data by Iman Resources.Dec 16, 2021

Amid China vacuum, Australian coal finds new homes in India ...

 

Did you consider using water out of the lake....or out of the ocean? Motives are still in question. Consider once the effect of putting tons upon tons of carbon into the atmosphere will do.

 

....

 

Or perhaps not.

Defying Modeled Expectations Again: The CO2 Airborne Fraction Has Been Declining Since 1959
By Kenneth Richard on 11. April 2022

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The ratio of the annual CO2 increase divided by the annual fossil fuel emission rate increase is referred to as the “airborne fraction.” It has long been assumed the airborne fraction should increase as fossil fuel emissions increase. But the opposite has happened.
Scientists have expressed consternation that the airborne fraction of anthropogenic CO2 emissions has not been rising to any significant degree since 1850 (Knorr, 2009). The lack of an increasing trend defies modeled expectations.

“Despite the predictions of coupled climate-carbon cycle models, no trend in the airborne fraction can be found.”

Image Source: Knorr, 2009
A new study (van Merle et al., 2022) suggests there is even more reason to assume there should be an increasing trend in the airborne fraction – especially since the late 1950s.

Not only have our fossil fuel CO2 emissions exploded from ~2.5 PgC/year to ~9.5 PgC/year in the last 60 years, but a massive increase in deforestation in tropical regions as well as a warming ocean and melting permafrost (contributing to outgassing) also suggest that natural land-ocean carbon sinks should not be expanding proportionately to emissions increases; instead, sinks should be stable to shrinking.

But this hasn’t happened.

Instead, the CO2 airborne fraction has not just been stable, it has been declining at a rate of -0.014 per decade since 1959.



Image Source: van Merle et al., 2022