This is really Marine grunt talk but soldiers can shime in if they want.. Marine Corps infantry tactics and organization are different than Army infantry tactics and organization. 12-man Marine rifle squads What the **** is going on here ? The Marine Corps rifle platoon with three rifle squads with three 4 man fire teams was invented by Captain Evans Calson and Capt. Merrit Edson just before WW l during the Banana Wars and the Boxer Rebellion in China. A Marine rifle squad led by a Sargent with three fire teams led by a Corporal with two rifle men and one automatic rifleman. (BAR then during the Vietnam War they just put a bi-pod of a M-16 A1 and called it the squad automatic weapon until the Marines got a real SAW, the M-249) It's official...The USMC has just adopted the M-27 rifle to replace all M-16's and M-4's in a Marine rifle platoon. When the U.S. Army adopted the M-16 A1 and the Marine Corps was forced by then Sec. of Def. Robert McNamara to adopts the M-16 A1 and fire discipline went into the crapper. M-16 A1 was capable of full automatic fire and when the **** hit the fan in Vietnam soldiers and Marines lost all fire discipline as they went full auto. Both the Army and Marine Corps got back most fire discipline some what with the adoption of the M-16 A2 that only allowed three round bust which is the proper way of firing a sub machine gun, assault rifle and the full auto rifle used as a SAW. The M-27 has a bi-pod and is capable of full automatic fire at 700 - 900 rpm. Will Marines lose fire discipline again like they did during the Vietnam War ? What's really kool about the M-27 it uses a short stroke piston instead of the ArmaLite action that uses a gas tube that sends all of that crappy gases back into the action and trigger housing group that leads to stoppages. What's still crappy about the M-27 is that its still chambered for a varmint cartridge, the 5.56 X 45 mm NATO which is a Remington .223 that is based upon the Remington .222 varmint cartridge. It seems that the automatic rifleman with the M-249 SAW has been completely eliminated from each fire team. Three man fire teams. Why the U.S. Marines Love the M27 Infantry Automatic Rifle
Most of the m16 gas is blown out of the gas ports in the side of the bolt carrier once the action begins to cycle. This is before the gas key disengagement from the gas tube. The fouling from a direct impingement rifle is far overstated and is a bunch of hooey. The failures in the early Vietnam area 16’s was a result of cost cutting efforts and the deletion of chrome lined firing chambers.
Also the 20 round magazine. That's why we never loaded our 20 round magazines with more than 18 rounds max, you were likely to have a stoppage and happened to me three times. The 30 round mags didn't start showing up in-country I'm guessing in late 70 or 71 and I was already out of there by then. You were able to load the 30 round mags with 30 rounds.
Not all are in love with the M27 it seems. https://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/your-marine-corps/2018/03/08/congress-grills-marines-over-m27/
In reality, it is corporals that are squad leaders, and sergeants that are platoon sergeants. And with the 15 minute life span of an infantry 2nd lieutenant, you're going to have sergeants as platoon leaders too.
There's a new Sheriff in town who knows the art of the deal. The M-14's I was issued cost $104. Not sure how much the M-16 A1 cost but the Colt AR-15 in 1962 in the sporting goods store that was sold as a hunting rifle went for $189.
I got tired suggesting to 2nd looies that they should really consider returning that M-1911 pistol to the armory, pistols are sniper bait. When I rated a pistol I rarely checked it out of the armory. I just kept my M-16 and tried to blend in with everyone else keeping a distance from my radioman because a PRC-25 was also sniper bait. Because of attrition it was common seeing a Corporal acting as a squad leader or even a Sargent (E-5) acting as the Platoon Sargent that is usually a Staff Sargent (E-6) Composition of the Rifle Squad The squad is composed of 13 men: a sergeant (squad leader) and three fire teams of four men each. Each fire team consists of a corporal (fire team leader/grenadier), two lance corporals (automatic rifleman and assistant automatic rifleman), and a private or private first class (rifleman). http://www.marines.mil/Portals/59/Publications/MCWP 3-11.2 Marine Rifle Squad.pdf DUTIES OF INDIVIDUALS Every member of a fire team must know the duties of the other team members, and in turn, the fire team leader and the squad leader should be able to assume the duties of their next superior. SQUAD LEADER The squad leader carries out the orders issued to him by the platoon commander. He is responsible for the discipline, appearance, training, control, conduct, and welfare of his squad at all times, as well as the condition, care, and economical use of its weapons and equipment. In combat, he is also responsible for the tactical employment, fire discipline, fire control, and maneuver of his squad. He takes position where he can best carry out the orders of the platoon commander and observe and control the squad. FIRE TEAM LEADER/GRENADIER The fire team leader carries out the orders of the squad leader. He is responsible for the fire discipline and control of his fire team and for the condition, care, and economical use of its weapons and equipment. In carrying out the orders of the squad leader, he takes a position to best observe and control the fire team. Normally, he is close enough to the automatic rifleman to exercise effective control of his fires. In addition to his primary duties as a leader, but not to the detriment of them, he serves as a grenadier and is responsible for the effective employment of the grenade launcher, his rifle, and for the condition and care of his weapons and equipment. The senior fire team leader in the squad serves as assistant squad leader. AUTOMATIC RIFLEMAN The automatic rifleman carries out the orders of the fire team leader. He is responsible for the effective employment the automatic rifle and for the condition and care of his weapon and equipment. ASSISTANT AUTOMATIC RIFLEMAN The assistant automatic rifleman assists in the employment of the automatic rifle. He carries additional magazines and/or ammunition boxes for the automatic rifle and is prepared to assume the duties of the automatic rifleman. He is responsible for the effective employment of his rifle and for the condition and care of his weapon and equipment. RIFLEMAN The rifleman in the fire team carries out the orders of the fire team leader. He is responsible for the effective employment of his rifle and for the condition and care of his weapon and equipment. The rifleman is trained as a scout.
Aren't all Marine officers been trained and qualified to lead a Marine rifle platoon into combat ? Last year I was in Hawaii and when I was aboard "K-Bay" ( Kaneohe Bay ) I met a Marine Major who's a FA-18 C fighter jock who was the acting Executive Officer of a Marine rifle battalion. I think it had more to do with that over 1/2 of the Marine Corps aircraft can't fly today because of Obama's sequestration. Can't have Marine pilots standing around on the tarmac doing jack **** every day.
Army Ranger Weapons (United States) There are a total of 51 Army Ranger Weapons (United States) in the Military Factory. Entries are listed below in alphanumeric order (1 to Z). This listing is part of our Special Forces Weapons collection showcasing weapons used by special forces groups of the world.....snip~ https://www.militaryfactory.com/special-forces/army-ranger-weapons.asp https://www.militaryfactory.com/special-forces/army-ranger-weapons.asp
No I was an arty butter bar assigned to the infantry for 12 months until my silver bar promotion when I then moved into the battery to lead the service platoon (not the guns). Soon after I was moved up to battalion to serve as the legal liaison to the JAG office at division.
Any Vietnam Army grunts remember Cathy ? Cathy would appear in the Americal 25th Div newspaper "Tropic Lightning News." http://www.25thida.org/TLN/tln5-35.htm
Indeed. You're just moving the fouling to the front of the weapon, and making it slower to put on target with the extra weight up there.
Paradigm change. Instead of the inaccurate SAW fire for suppression, they want to trade that for more accurate fire. Interesting tactic. Suppression fire is less effective against more experienced enemies so it's an interesting angle, especially when everyone in the squad has the ability to use it.
Isn't the main purpose of suppressive fire using an automatic rifle or SAW is to send down range rounds is a large pattern so the enemy takes cover and keep their heads down while the three other Marines in the fire team close in and take deliberate aim killing the enemy ? That's what remember. By eliminating one Marine in the fire team who use to be the automatic rifleman who provided the suppressive fire you only have three Marines with rifles. The M-27 can be used as an automatic rifle (so they are saying) for suppresive fire in a three man fire team but that leaves you with only two Marine riflemen to close in and take deliberate aim and killing the enemy. Laying down suppresive fire, accuracy isn't that important, it's putting a large volume of fire into the beaten zone. All M-27 rifles have a bipod. I suppose so they can be used to lay down suppresive fire. Why not keep the four man fire team remove the bipods on three of the M-27's and the designated automatic rifleman keeps the bipod ? Two casualties in a three man fire team leaves the fire team with one Marine all by himself. Both the Army and Marine Corps have complained that the M-249 SAW had to many stoppages in a fire fight. The Browning Automatic Rifle (BAR) was an excellent SAW. At almost 20 pounds it had half the recoil of the M-1 Garand or M-14. In semi auto mode is was extremely accurate and could be used as a battle rifle. It was the M-14 that was suppose to have replaced the BAR but at 9.5 pounds empty it was just to light and extremely hard to control at full auto. Check out this video on the BAR. You'll notice how many times the old geezer and his son keep mentioning how heavy the BAR is. I think they have been spending to much time with AR's.
The idea is to not use suppressive fire, but accurate auto fire, and for all members of the squad to have that capability. Better to hit the enemy than make them hide I guess. The ammo round count is the same, and with it sharing the same mags instead of being belt fed, you have more options there too if someone runs out. The LMG guy also doesn't become a target due to the weapon he's carrying. If your LMG guy runs dry or gets hit, there goes your capability. Not so in this paradigm. I'm curious what the failure rate will be transferring from an open bolt LMG system to this.
