Guide to creating a socialist utopia

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by RedRepublic, Jun 26, 2012.

  1. RedRepublic

    RedRepublic Banned at Members Request

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    The goal: Social ownership and control of the means of production, cooperative management of the economy.

    How to get there:
    Step 1: Encourage workplace democracy and the creation of worker cooperatives through government funding.

    Step 2: Continue furthering the spread of workplace democracy and the creation of worker cooperatives with a focus of the areas traditionally lacking, until businesses with traditional power structures have withered away due to people choosing to switch to worker cooperatives for superior pay and working conditions. Outlaw the non-democratic business model.

    Step 3: Firstly, congratulations! You have achieved Market Socialism.
    Want to go further? How about we run the economy cooperatively? There's a few options here, and personally I'm not a fan of central planning. A Decentraly planned economy sounds pretty good to me, but advocate whatever YOU feel is fairest.
    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decentrally_planned_economy

    Step 4: Enjoy the utopia :)
    Cheers for reading.
     
  2. akphidelt2007

    akphidelt2007 New Member Past Donor

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    Thanks for the definitions but what and how does this apply to anything?
     
  3. Badmutha

    Badmutha New Member

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    Step 1. Remove Choice, Freedom, Liberty from The People

    Step 2. Enjoy the Utopia/Open Sewer
     
    Leatherface likes this.
  4. RedRepublic

    RedRepublic Banned at Members Request

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    It's a basic and oversimplified step by step guide to replacing capitalism with socialism by me. For your own good, please read some of the Wikipedia article of 'workplace democracy', a key feature in true socialist systems.
     
  5. akphidelt2007

    akphidelt2007 New Member Past Donor

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    I don't want to read on workplace democracy... I'm wondering what your point is. This is a forum for debate, just pointing out wikipedia definitions doesn't do anything.
     
  6. RedRepublic

    RedRepublic Banned at Members Request

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    You're not very good at trolling. I'm not even angry at you.
    Socialism by definition has more freedom.
     
  7. Questerr

    Questerr Banned

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    But the model you are talking about still requires force.
     
  8. Brewskier

    Brewskier Well-Known Member

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    If "businesses with traditional power structures have withered away due to people choosing to switch to worker cooperatives for superior pay and working conditions", why would you have to "outlaw the non-democratic business model"? Do you not see the irony/hypocrisy in stripping people of the ability to democratically choose what you consider to be "the non-democratic" option? Or are these just fascist roots shining through your utopian fog? Should we kill a few people, too? You know, just to keep people voting the right way?
     
  9. RedRepublic

    RedRepublic Banned at Members Request

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    My point is that this would be a good way to replace capitalism with (the literal definition of) socialism. You can agree with it or debate it. If you don't care either way then don't post.
     
  10. RedRepublic

    RedRepublic Banned at Members Request

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    No.

    (20charicters)
     
  11. Questerr

    Questerr Banned

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    "Outlaw all business models except workplace democracy." Did you or did you not include that in your plan?

    That is force. You want the government to send people to prison if they don't practice workplace democracy.
     
  12. Phoebe Bump

    Phoebe Bump New Member

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    Few questions:

    What do you have against utopias?

    Do you believe people should abandon all hope for a utopia?

    Is there such a thing as a capitalist utopia?
     
  13. RedRepublic

    RedRepublic Banned at Members Request

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    People don't need to vote the right way, it'll happen anyway naturally but government policies would speed things up. Where did I advocate killing or harming people?
    Banning the non democratic business model is akin to banning a form of oppression.
     
  14. Badmutha

    Badmutha New Member

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    Right....an all powerful all controlling centralized nanny Statist government is all about Freedom isnt it.
    .
    .
     
  15. Phoebe Bump

    Phoebe Bump New Member

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    What choice do we have in your capitalist utopia? The choice between Wal-Mart and K-Mart? The choice between Exxon and Shell? C'mon, man, get ahold of yourself.
     
  16. Brewskier

    Brewskier Well-Known Member

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    I just find it highly ironic/hypocritical to your viewpoint that you would advocate for "democracy" and then ban something that someone could choose democratically. See the problem with pretending your way offers freedom when it really doesn't?
     
  17. RedRepublic

    RedRepublic Banned at Members Request

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    That part was about avoiding a resurgence in exploitation. It's a democratic system though, people would be free to vote and remove the law if they have the strange desire to be oppressed. I just wouldn't expect anyone to want to go back (except previously rich people) but if for any reason they did want to they have the right to try and repeal the law.
     
  18. Brewskier

    Brewskier Well-Known Member

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    So if you don't think anyone would go back, there'd be no need to outlaw capitalist businesses, right?
     
  19. Questerr

    Questerr Banned

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    So it would only be force against the minority?

    I'm glad that you see that it involves force.
     
  20. RedRepublic

    RedRepublic Banned at Members Request

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    If enough people wanted it they could change the law to allow pedophilia. I don't want pedophilia allowed, so I support laws against it.
    I wouldn't want capitalism allowed, so I would support laws against it - laws can be changed.
     
  21. darckriver

    darckriver New Member Past Donor

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    That's strange - the Eastern Europeans living in the midst of their grand socialist utopian experiments didn't seem quite as disdainful of those kinds of choices as you.
     
  22. RedRepublic

    RedRepublic Banned at Members Request

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    It's democracy.

    You might be against democracy, and there are legitimate arguments to be.

    But I think democracy with a culture that cares about individual rights as well as collective is the way to go.
     
  23. Questerr

    Questerr Banned

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    Democracies have to protect the rights of the minority.
     
  24. RedRepublic

    RedRepublic Banned at Members Request

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    Yes, in ideal conditions. But remember you've still got these previous business owners to deal with.
     
  25. Brewskier

    Brewskier Well-Known Member

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    False equivalence logical fallacy.
     

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