Discussion in 'Gun Control' started by M.A. Survivalist, Mar 18, 2020.
Hell around here it sure as hell could be.
I think any situation that I'll need my 'hoard' of ammo and food for will most likely be the result of a self fulfilling prophecy of panic. Society is really the only thing that can collapse society.
Im not out buying 1000s of anything because I've been buying a bit extra for years.
Again....you’re whining to the wrong person.
Ah yes....let’s take it to the extreme hypothetical situation and make yet another silly assumption. My lord....you’re quite desperate.
I hear you, I encourage everyone to own a firearm for protection. I guess what I'm saying is I have plenty of guns and plenty of ammo. Not stockpiles or anything but enough to where I'm not counting bullets every time I want to go plinking at the range. However, if there ever came a point during this pandemic where I NEEDED more than the 8 shells in my shotgun or the 30 rounds in my rifle then global society in itself has collapsed along with a total collapse of the US government. This pandemic ain't gonna do that to the world...
Some folks were buying up ammo for logical reasons such as feeling supply chains would slow if/when more lockdown mandates were established by state governments. Others are out there buying up the store shelves because they think that they may have the need to defend their toilet paper and rice stockpiles from hoards of starving citizens. That is what is ridiculous to me. If you ever end up having to even reload your firearm while defending your house from citizens in America then our entire planetary society has completely collapsed already.
Hey, I'm not the one who complained about the taste of tap water.
But if my example is extreme, then you prove my point. There's no reason to hoard bottled water because of the virus if the only issue you have with tap water is that it tastes bad...
There are those, however, who fail to understand the logic of doing that and, instead, would rather fight over toilet paper in the grocery store...
But don't you wanna be one of the re-builders?
Rebuilders of what?
Society. Civilization. If the worst happens, and our entire planetary society collapses, do you want to be around to start the next one?
Sure but that's such a far-fetched hypothetical situation that I don't even think about things like that. One day some virus or plague may very well collapse modern society, but Coronavirus is certainly not it. Folks in the US would need to start dying off by the tens of millions before a conversation like this would be worthwhile.
I agree. But like I said, Im not prepping for coronavirus (I bought some gold because of coronavirus...). Its just one unlikely society-ender of many that are perpetually floating around the realm of possibility that we should all stay prepared for.
Im hoping folks that are panicking now remember the scare after it wears out and stay better prepared for the next time. I don't expect they will tho...
Your example is silly. But you know that. Keep swinging
When people start realizing the stark possibility that the guberment can't readily protect them in time of crisis, that's what people do.
I guess what gets me is ... They waited until a crisis hit us, and NOW they buy a gun?
My example is silly? That stocking up for hurricanes or earthquakes is silly?
Are you high?
I am familiar with the round. It was not so much viewed at the time of it’s development as a round superior to the 9mm in a pistol, but viewed as a competitor to the 9mm for use by NATO in submachine gun. The reasoning at the time had to do with the round’s minimal recoil in a sub-gun, increased capacity, high velocity, with armor piercing potential (more & more encounters), and considering the fmj constraints for NATO troops which significantly reduces the terminal performance of the 9mm, there were those among the advocates the 5.56, that believed a scaled version firing basically the same diameter bullet in a smaller casing would offer some advantages. NATO didn’t accept it and it was recast as a cartridge to EU police (many armed with various .380 guns) and for civilian markets.
While interesting for some applications, when packaged in service pistols, the round, like many, looses some of the advantage of velocity in short barrels of even full size pistols, but if fired from shorter barrels of guns designed for CC, you are not getting much more advantage than carrying .22 mags IMO. In terms of terminal performance, I would prefer something a bit more substantial
If you supply to because of worry, cost of 5.7 ammo is on par with 9mm, and modern 9mm ammo design (something unavailable to NATO troops) has considerably better terminal performance than that 5.57. There are also more offerings of guns for less cost than the couple of 5.7 chambered ones out there now. In a SHTF scenario common ammo types will disappear rapidly, but on the flip side, far more 9mm is manufactured that other ammo and is likely found in the wild. To get a hint at a trend in ammo scarcity in an SHFT scenario, check gun stores now. I like many, have an ammo supply, along with a couple BOBs (designed for more than one type scenario), and a gun that can be fed more than one cartridge type and/or can share cartridge types (9mm full size & 9mm for concealed backup, .38/.357 full size revolver and Kimber K26, etc). A key rule I follow, when the SHTF happens what you have on hand and your kit’s flexibility, is likely all you may get to play.
Back to the 5.57, I tend to do my own ammo testing. When I can’t I like to check stats from real world uses... FBI reports, etc. There are a few YouTube sources that do reasonable credible tests.
Paul Harrel has a number of common man reasonable performance test videos, and a couple the with 5.57.
He has a few worth watching.
A little more on the 5.57
I have my criteria for making my decisions. Mine may not suite someone else, and I don’t push mine on another and always find it interesting to see the opinions and experience of others who may have an insight I may not have considered.
I hadn’t seen that Harrell video. It’s pretty good information. I suppose I’m one of the niche users he talks about.
I think it’s important to point out your comparison between the 5.7 and .22 mag is lacking critical information. A 30 grain .22 mag out of a 24” barrel is similar ballistically to the 5.7 32grain out of a 5” (actually slightly less than 5”) barrel. A true comparison would be a .22 mag out of the same barrel length which would drop the velocity down to the 1000 fps range. About half that of the 5.7.
Also, something commonly overlooked in the .22 vs. 5.7 comparison is the notorious unreliability of rimfire primer ignition compared to a center fire cartridge. That’s important to me.
To get deeper into the SHTF stuff, the weight of pistol and ammo is a huge factor if you end up on the move. Not only weight, but space as well. Compare the size and weight of that 9mm 50 rd box to that if a box of 5.7. Never mind a box of .45 ACP. My “bug out bag” is my EDC bag, so having 5.7 as one of my main calibers is really nice for keeping things manageable weight and space wise.
Also on the SHTF side, is the flat trajectory advantage of the 5.7 to allow for accurate longer shots. Harrell mentions that in your linked video. One reason I use the 5.7 a lot is I can grab a pistol if I don’t feel like lugging a rifle around, but can still take a coyote at 75 yards without lobbing lead like artillery rounds.
Overall, I doubt the 5.7 is best for most concealed carry or self defense purposes. Unless body armor is a concern. There are a lot of trade offs, just like the choice between 9mm and .45 ACP.
I will add that custom ammunition is available in the 5.7 that further narrows the performance gap to other larger caliber handgun cartridges. But it’s pricey. Over a buck a round last I checked. I use ss197 (40 g v-max), the federal 40 g FMJ, and the lead free 32 g ss198 depending on the application and haven’t felt the need to step it up. Yes, the ss198 is labeled as military/LE only but can be found online when we aren’t going through one of these ammo hoarding episodes.
Once again your assumption is wrong. Not to mention rather sad you are unable to follow a conversation.
Because its a good idea to stock up on water, and all essential supplies, during a disaster in general. Of course its best to already be stocked up beforehand.
I would not use as currency anything that can be used against me.
Because lots of people who were either more or less neutral on the gun debate or even who were against guns went to buy their first gun during this crisis. This I would say is a good thing, lots of new gun owners and lots of people joining our cause for gun rights.
My question is with regards to Covid-19 specifically, though. What is it about the virus which makes it a sudden necessity to stock up on bottled water?
Paper towels is another one I don't get. My local grocer has been out of paper towels for two weeks...
My assumption is spot on.
I've no doubt you're high...
Nope. Wasn’t referring to your statement about stockpiling for hurricane. I was referring to your silly hypothetical regarding me and complete dehydration. So once again you are wrong in your assumptions. But keep digging. It’s been fun to watch you go deeper and deeper.
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