Guns and Liberals

Listening to some conservatives talking about firearms, beyond the usual sensation of safety and protecting one’s family and property, the masculine bravado and all that, is the underlying political divide. Regularly the insinuation pops up, that in a battle for America, conservatives would come out on top because they have all the guns. It is one of those things that comes up in right-wing rallies, where protestors have taken to carrying firearms. On this forum I regularly see posts, and even whole threads, based on the idea that liberals are too incompetent to properly use firearms. Too scared to protect their families.


Growing up my dad insisted his sons know about guns. There was even an embroidered sign hanging in our kitchen that said, “Those who grow up learning to responsibly use guns don’t grow up to be criminals.” The gun I grew up with was a .22 single shot bolt action rifle that was made by a machinist who worked in the same shop as my dad. It was on the heavy side but extremely accurate. While in junior high school I was particularly successful in a particular competition. In the last round, the pattern I left on the target was so tight that one of the other competitors raised the objection that only four holes could be discerned even though I fired five rounds. It was the point where I gave up guns for not being enough of a challenge. But then I still went through my teen years, occasionally terrorizing the countryside with my friends, with our .22’s in hand.


I switched to archery primarily because it requires more skill and athletic ability to do well. Even with all the technological advances over the years, I prefer to use all wood recurve bows without sights, commonly referred to as a barebow. Again, for the same reason, the greater the challenge. I’ve gotten really good at this too. I’ve even split arrows in competition, Robin Hood style. One of those quirks of Portland is the public archery ranges in the parks.


At the time I was transitioning to archery, I also began to sour on hunting and the hunting culture. Part of it came from the idea of a guy sitting on a hill, looking down a high-powered scope, and picking off a deer in afar away meadow peacefully grazing. That they called it sport irked me the most. I’ve played a lot of sports in my life and hunting seemed to be no such thing. In fact, it almost seemed cowardly to me, especially in those hunting reserves where wealthy individuals pay to shoot just released caged animals. I was just getting into more extreme sports and saw hunting, by comparison, to be rather lame, something old, slow, over the hill, guys did.


I got into going on “survival” adventures. It would be just me and a buddy or two. There was also a certain woman who liked to go with me. We’d drive to the end of the road, follow animal trails by foot deep into the Colorado wilderness. For food we usually only brought along a bag of dry whole wheat noodles and a few energy/candy bars. This was deer country so there were plenty of berries to eat. The state stocked the high mountain ponds and lakes with trout which trickled down through the streams that fed the rivers. Besides the fish there were frogs, lizards, and crawfish. Mm mm mmm now that’s some good eating.


I also brought along my bow. It was satisfying to slowly sneak upon a bird, 20ft,15 10 feet, draw an arrow feeling the power through my arms. sshhhhshhhshhshshhhshsshPTH! Dinner on a stick. At the end of the day, as the campfire began to die down, it wasn’t all that uncommon to see firelight dancing in the eyes or feel the breath of a curious elk.


There are a couple of guns that I have that have served me well. When I was in high school, one day this boy wanted to fight me because in gym class I outran him in what he described as a mocking manner. I thought it was a stupid thing to fight over but wasn’t about to back down. I didn’t have to as two other boys pulled the guy to the side and convinced him it wasn’t worth fighting over.


The next day I was in class. The teacher had witnessed the altercation that I had been in the day before. He made a few comments about it and then went on to tell me that I would be better off in life as a lover rather than as a fighter. As he spoke there was a certain girl who kept looking at me in such a way that I had no doubt the truthfulness of his words. Anyhow, in case someone doesn’t know, it is not an exact equivalence, but from an aesthetic point of view, women tend to look at men’s arms and shoulders in much the same way that men look at boobs. Many a time I have had a woman slide up to me, wrapping her arm around mine, and quietly tell me, “nice guns”.

 

Cool autobiography. Yes some liberals use weapons too. What's your point?

 

How does your claimed personal experience negate the norm?

 

I think the point is in the OP title- Guns and Liberals.

Not all conservatives understand that not all liberals want to ban guns (most of them don't).

If only they could realize that the bulk of their political leadership does... but thats prolly off topic.

Back on topic, I'll chime in as a Classical Liberal

My dad believed in gun control: as a kid, touching the guns without permission was the only thing he ever threatened to beat me for. I didn't (tho he never said no when I asked). We werent hunters, just target shooters. My grandpa otoh was a regular small game hunter and tho I only hunted (rabbit) with him once, I learned a lot. I hunted (quail) once since then. I have my Hunters Ed permit, but havnt used it yet. While I like the idea of a freezer full of venison, I just havnt found the motivation to get a deer yet. But I will... eventually.

One of my guns was a gift from my grandpa, and two others I got from his estate when he passed. I'll never sell them.

 

The population of group (x) never fully conforms to the stereotype of group (x) - thus, unqualified statements about a group are rarely true and most often made from ignorance.
That said, stereotypes exist for a reason.

 

Because there really isn't a "norm" on this issue. I'm a lifelong hunter and gun owner. I support the right to own guns. I just don't see them as the panacea
to all ills that some on the right do, and I think the NRA does more harm than good. Somehow, that makes me a leftist on this forum.

 

Sure there is. Not absolutes, but norms.
It is, for instance, extraordinarily unlikely that a conservative Republican will introduce legislation for an federal 'assault weapon' ban.

 

The real issue that enters into those who protect guns is the capacity to defend. IF you lack that- there are always those who will take advantage of your weakness.

As a kid, I became friends with an old game warden ,who taught me how to bass fish I was 14; he was 75. We had many conversations about life and nature, which he regarded as the ultimate teacher. One day we were talking about the behavior of some mouthy punk kids he had ran into at a campsite- and despite his age, controlled the situation well. His looked at me and said, "Do you know why people don't walk up to bears and kick their asses?" I was kind of shocked at the statement and didn't answer before he explained that "It's because the bear has the weapons and the will to kill you if you cross them."

There are a lot of people who only treat others with respect for the same reason. In the human world- defending against them requires weapons, as well as the will to use them if necessary. The alternative is to run, if you can.

I quit hunting many years back, because it wasn't necessary, and I respect the lives and contributions of the animals. However, I'm like the bear- I have the weapons and the will to defend myself, if that becomes necessary.

 

The point is many conservatives seem to see liberals through the lens of their stereotype. The same can be said of how they see blacks, homosexuals, Hispanics, and Muslims.

Regularly I read posts by conservatives where they paint liberals as weak and cowardly, afraid to use firearms. A lot of it, I'm sure, goes back to the brain vs brawn debate. Going by the rhetoric, considering the anti-science, anti-college stance of many conservatives, and their efforts to paint liberal men as weak, it seems that many conservatives have taken the brawn option.

Yet when one considers that thought is a physical process one realizes that a healthy, long lasting mind, requires a healthy body. Just as a healthy body requires a healthy brain. One does not see unhealthy people grow into old age. I've read studies where better educated people tend to be healthier than less educated people. They are also less likely to be obese.

I, for one, think that Obama is considerably more intelligent than Trump. Trump however has considerably more bulk and is prone to pushing people around. The old battle between brain and brawn. However, Obama is in considerably better shape. I'm sure if they were locked in competition, gladiator style, Obama would be the clear favorite.

 

For perfectly good reason, as most liberals live up to it.

Yes, yes we know... ubermesnch > untermensch.
Funny how you're living up to one of those liberal stereotypes right now.

 

It is not conservatives it is people. Liberals do as well, just a different lens

 

You express an attitude, a worldview, that I cannot relate to. It is if you are saying one can only earn respect by being stronger.

When I was a child I did not suffer bullies well. There was this one kid who would elbow me in the ribs as he walked by, or give me a shove. He was a year older and had maybe 6 inches on me.

I had absolutely no respect for this guy. One day I had had enough. I launched my fist, with all my weight and strength behind it, square into his nose. As he was standing next to a wall at the time, my thrust pushed his head against the wall. With nowhere else for the force to go, his nose exploded with blood.

He was crying, blood was everywhere, teachers and administrators were running around in a panic, the blood wouldn't stop. Finally an ambulance showed up. They couldn't get the blood to stop either. Soon they wheeled him out on a stretcher, holding blood soaked towels over his face.

Another time I witnessed a couple of guys with guns shooting at wildlife in a park. A fellow approached them demanding they stop. One of the gunmen then pointed his gun into the face of the fellow. This fellow hauled off and slugged the gunman in the face, sending him and his gun sprawling to the ground. The fellow grabbed the gun and heaved it into the nearby river.

 

I would have done the same if they pointed it in my face..

 

Yet it often occurs to me that conservative ideology is built upon distorted view of their lenses. Repeatedly when conversing with conservatives I get the feeling that they are more angry with the stereotype they imagine me to be, than with me. It was like that with Obama. It seemed that many conservatives disliked him for what they imagined he did rather than what he really did do. Government takeover of the auto industry comes to mind.

 

Just like when people call conservatives nazis because they dont like illegal immigration or think family values are important parts of our culture? Heck I have been called a nazi because I try to follow my faith as best as I can.

 

And in that case, the prudent action would have been to contact authority, in that the person could have been at high risk confronting an armed and belligerent person. Being strong means knowing yourself well enough that you can don't become a bully, losing the respect for right and wrong itself.

Power isn't necessarily abuse, and I think most abusers feel they lack real power- they are using violence to re-assure themselves they have it. They have to abuse to feel OK in a twisted sort of way.

 

I call conservatives, conservatives.

 

But you can do a search on these forums and find plenty of examples. It is not a conservative or liberal thing. People are attacking people and not listening to why they think the way they do. There is no debate and mutual trading of ideas any longer. To be frank I feel compelled to hide my beliefs around people now a days for fear of reprisal.

 

Isn't this a (supposed) example of how you earned respect by being stronger?
About how, sometimes, violence is the answer?

 

But YOUR repeated characterization of conservatives as untermensch -- that's spot on, no distortion whatsoever.

 

Now you need to graduate and go to Alaska. Plenty of everything you have in Colorado, except more predators. Good fishing, hunting...try hunting ptarmigan with a slingshot. That way you dontd scare off all the other birds.

 

I can say the same about the liberal ideology.

 

i agree with you about hunting culture. yet i do not object to hunting on its own.

 

how does the nra do more harm than good?

 

I've had this conversation with him several times.

He thinks that be refusing to acquiesce to the demands of the anti-gun left - he calls it a refusal to compromise, but a we all know, the anti-gun left isn't interested in compromise - the NRA sets us up for a future loss of rights.

When you ask him for his line in the sand, he won't respond.