Hamas fires rockets at Israel

LOL!!!!

if "so what", is the best you got, I guess I won the debate.

 

false. I did no such thing.

it is YOU who keeps attacking the Jewish faith.

I never attack Islam.

 

Oh I wrote the trade was still able to reach Israel.
You ignoring the facts is the best you can do.

 

You dragged in the Muslim faith in post 690. So I fail to see how dragging in the Jew faith is unacceptable...
when the obedient Jew learns from his faith that's it's fine to thieve land all the way to the Nile.
The Jew God supports it. And behold... it happened. Totally on par on the subject,
of who and why the Jews attacked first.

 

YOU attacked the Jewish faith in post 689, so I responded to your derail.

now, END all attacks upon religion.

this thread is NOT about the Torah or Judaism, so knock the crap off

 

Look, if the Jews left their ancient homeland of Palestine and went to,
say, Germany, to live as refugees - they would still be condemned.
They were condemned for not fitting into the Roman empire, condemned
as Christ killers, condemned for being prosperous land owners - and when
their land was confiscated (again) they were condemned for being greedy
money lenders. They are condemned for killing Christian children. They
are condemned for ruling the world.

The Arabs are the only people I know who look up to Hitler. They did so
during the war. It's their mentality. They never stop to consider what the
Jews could do to them. They think the Jews will never use their armies
and their nuclear weapons are "afraid" to use them to the fullest - the
Arab can't get his mind around the fact that it's RESTRAINT by the Jews
that has protected them.

And yet, many Arabs still dream of invading the Holy Land and killing all
the Jews.

 

Nonsense!

Israel's '67 land grab was just that, a land grab, according to individuals far more knowledgeable than you.

For example, Mordechai Bentov has the honesty to admit that the whole story about a threat of extermination was simply a contrived excuse to annex new Arab territories:

"A 50-Year Occupation: Israel’s Six-Day War Started With a Lie"
https://theintercept.com/2017/06/05/a-50-year-occupation-israels-six-day-war-started-with-a-lie/

EXCERPT "A year earlier, Mordechai Bentov, a member of the wartime government and one of 37 people to sign Israel’s Declaration of Independence, had made a similar admission. “This whole story about the threat of extermination was totally contrived, and then elaborated upon, a posteriori, to justify the annexation of new Arab territories,” he said in April 1971."CONTINUED

Meanwhile, M. Begin also admits that the '67 War was initiated by Israel:

“Begin's Admission in 1982 That Israel Started Three of Its Wars”
http://www.washingtonreport.me/1994-july-august/middle-east-history-begin-s-admission-in-1982-that-israel-started-three-of-its-wars.html

EXCERPT "In June 1967, we again had a choice. The Egyptian army concentrations in the Sinai approaches do not prove that Nasser was really about to attack us. We must be honest with ourselves. We decided to attack him."CONTINUED


You'll notice that neither of these individuals who were on the scene at the time mentions anything about your silly "Egyptian attempt at genocide."

 

oh, so the Israelis FORCED Egypt to kick out the Peacekeepers and ban Israeli traffic from the Straits of Tiran?

and the Israelis FORCED the Egyptians to devise a plan to attack Israel on May 27, 1967?

Operation Dawn, code-name Fajr (الفجر) in Arabic,[1] was an Egyptian military operation planned to strike the Israeli Air Force, in the prelude to what would become the Six-Day War. The Egyptian attack plan was to also involve strategic bombing of major ports, the Negev Nuclear Research Center near Dimona, airfields and cities. Arab armies would then attack, effectively cutting Israel in half with an armoured thrust from northern Sinai via the Negev desert.

give us a break!!!

the fact is, the closing of the Straits of Tiran was an act of WAR by Egypt against Israel, and Israel has the right to respond militarily, especially considering the Egyptians also had a plan to attack Israel. Egypt wanted to provoke Israel into conflict and they got their wish.

 

Neither of those acts justify Israel's long planned land grab.

What part of Mordechai Bentov's quote are you unable to grasp:

“This whole story about the threat of extermination was totally contrived, and then elaborated upon, a posteriori, to justify the annexation of new Arab territories,” [Quote Mordechai Bentov]


"A 50-Year Occupation: Israel’s Six-Day War Started With a Lie"
https://theintercept.com/2017/06/05/a-50-year-occupation-israels-six-day-war-started-with-a-lie/

EXCERPT "A year earlier, Mordechai Bentov, a member of the wartime government and one of 37 people to sign Israel’s Declaration of Independence, had made a similar admission. “This whole story about the threat of extermination was totally contrived, and then elaborated upon, a posteriori, to justify the annexation of new Arab territories,” he said in April 1971."CONTINUED


Norman Finkelstein reveals that just before the '67 War:
" Israel was not peacefully minding its own business, but instead regularly and violently provoking its Arab neighbors. In November 1966, in the largest military action since the Suez invasion, Israel attacked the West Bank town of Samu, then under Jordanian rule, killing 18 Jordanian soldiers and destroying 125 homes. Israel continued instigating along its border with Syria in April 1967, triggering an aerial battle in which 6 Syrian planes were shot down, including one over Damascus."(1)

He additionally cites what he calls the "Two biggest lies" about the '67 War:

* The truth is that Nasser and the other Arab leaders had absolutely no intention of invading Israel in June 1967.

* And Israel’s existence was never in the slightest doubt, as both Israeli and American leaders knew that Israel could easily win any conflict, even against a coalition of Arab states." (1)

M. Begin, too, refutes your attempts to whitewash chronic Israeli aggression:

"The Egyptian Army concentrations in the Sinai approaches do not prove that Nasser was really about to attack us. We must be honest with ourselves. We decided to attack him." M. Begin
http://www.nytimes.com/1982/08/21/world/excerpts-from-begin-speech-at-national-defense-college.html

What makes you think that you know more about the realities of Israel's '66 & '67 aggression than either Bentov or Begin who were active participants?

(1) "Israel provoked the Six-Day War in 1967, and it was not fighting for survival"
http://mondoweiss.net/2017/06/provoked-fighting-survival/

 

land grab?

Egypt committed an act of war by blocking the Straits of Tiran, where 90% of Israel's oil flowed threw.

Israel then begged Jordan to NOT join the Six Day War, just cause they signed a mutual defense treaty a week earlier. Jordan refused, and started shelling Israel.

so because Egypt blocked the Straits, they lost the Sinai Peninsula (which Israel gave back in full) and because Jordan insisted on shelling Israel, they lost the West Bank.

looks like the 1967 war and all the Arab loses were 100% their own fault.

i hope they learned their lesson.

 

RE: Hamas fires rockets at Israel
⁜→ Grau, et al,
You need to open your mind to be more objective. And carefully read what our friend "Ronstar" has presented in thumbnail form. You will find it is well worth it.

(COMMENT)

The rocket fire, as well as the Fire Kites and Balloons, are violations of several international agreements. No one expects the Hostile Arab Palestinians to act in accordance with normal protocols. And I'm sure you all have heard the citations of the various laws. What you are trying to push here is that there was no mal-intent on the part of the Arab League bbelligerents Clearly, if Egypt had no intent to jump accross the border when they ordered the UN Peace Keepers in 1967 to pull-out, they would not have rushed offensive forces to the Armistice Line. The international laws speak to the "Threat of" or use of force. The Egyptians made the aggressive move and presented the "threat." Israel moved to neutralized the threat.

But I really do encourage you to read the commentary from "Ronstar" more carefully and with an open mind.

...........
Most Respectfully,
R

 

As for your "land grab"
Israel offered land back to the Arab states if you would agree to a
permanent peace treaty. The only land Israel would not surrender
was Jerusalem - it was their ancient capital after all. And even here
the Jews are still not allowed to worship on the temple mount.

As for the start of the war - Syria started it by trying to block the Jordan
river. Russia stoked it up by claiming Israel was massing forces against
Syria. Egypt tried it - readying Russian bombers to attack Israel's cities.
And Israel finished it.

But Israel offered terms. Israel did not slit the throats of the Arabs as
Arabs threatened to do to the Jews. And Arabs tried to involve Russia
and thus triggering WWIII.

 

The Six Day War started when Egypt kicked out the UN peacekeepers and banned Israeli traffic through the Straits of Tiran. Eisenhower and Johnson both agreed on this fact. Egypt was trying to provoke Isreal into military conflict and they got their wish.

Mind you, Israel gave back the entire Sinai Peninsula once peace was guaranteed.

Lesson? Don't **** with Israel.

 

Thank you for your refreshingly polite & civil post.

I do, indeed attempt to look at all arguments with an open mind up to the point where that argument conflicts with historic realities.

I hope that you will note that in my Post # 718 that I have drawn from historic assessments to debunk the two contentions made by "Ronstar".
Those historic realities have boiled down to the facts that:
- Israel was not facing a "genocidal threat" due to anything that Israel's neighbors had done.
- Israel's generals had long planned for and deliberately initiated the '67 War as a means to seize more land.

In addition to the facts stated by Israeli generals and historians that I cited in my Post, I hope that you will consider the following assessment made by M. Begin:

"The Egyptian Army concentrations in the Sinai approaches do not prove that Nasser was really about to attack us. We must be honest with ourselves. We decided to attack him." M. Begin

http://www.nytimes.com/1982/08/21/world/excerpts-from-begin-speech-at-national-defense-college.html

When prominent Israelis, themselves, admit to starting a war to seize more land, there is little reason to give credibility to apologists for each & every Israeli war crime and act of aggression.

Thank you for your time.
Best Regards,
G.

 

I've already addressed who really started Israel's long planned '67 Land Grab as well as why the Israeli started it with my Post #718 in which I cited several credible sources.

Re:

I don't know how many Arab throats were slit but among Israel's innumerable war crimes was the massacre of about 1,000 Egyptian POWs during the '67 War as well as Israel's deliberate attack on America's USS Liberty.

"Historians: Israeli Troops Killed Hundreds Of Egyptian POWs"
https://www.apnews.com/25ac46caafc811c70c9367f04ef136fb

EXCERPT "Military historian Aryeh Yitzhaki told The Associated Press on Wednesday that Israeli troops carried out several mass killings in 1967 in which some 1,000 Egyptian prisoners were killed in the Sinai."CONTINUED

 

Fact: no Egyptian blockade of the Straits of Tiran? No Israeli attack on the Egyptian military weeks later.

Fact: No Jordanian attack on Israel? No Israeli conquering of the West Bank.

Arabs have nobody to blame but themselves.

 

No, these aren't "posts", they are two very racist books.
They are antisemitic and they are widely available in the Middle East.

 

You are ranting up racist posts.... it's not as if them books are not widely available in the US.
You can buy them from amazon.

 

They Jews started a war to ethnically cleanse 100.000's of people out of Israel. I already sourced they were going to massacre every male in Haifa if they wouldn't leave, and demanded the women and children to go as well. They started a war to thieve the lands all the way up to Suez. It ended with a cease fire, not peace. And so the block against Israel is totally normal at that point, and not an act of war started by Egypt... since the Jews started it.

 

This "land grab"
Did the Arabs believe the Jews were going to "grab" land? If so, why
did they then provoke the Jews? Egyptians marched in the streets
in support of Nassa's genocidal threats. They rejoiced in the streets
when they heard Nassa's fake news about killing the Jews.
If Syria was afraid of a Jewish "land grab" then why did they try to
block the Jordan river? Why did they start shelling Israel?
And why did Jordan get involved if it was afraid the Jews were
going to "land grab" them? What was Jordan doing "owning" the
West Bank and Jerusalem? I thought the "Palestinians" wanted
their independence? If the Jews were going to "land grab" these
areas then why did Israel urge Jordan "don't get involved and we
won't attack you." ???

No, the land grab was going to be the Arabs grabbing Jewish land.
The first land grab was in the Middle Ages.

The "long planned" Jewish attack had nothing to do with land grabs.
It had to do with
1 - neutralizing the Arab air forces
2 - destroying the Arab tank and infantry against Israel's borders.

and it worked brilliantly.

 

Notme. You find an "incident" to EXPLAIN AWAY whole history.

I noticed this in jpost.com
https://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/S...connaissance-Unit-Commander-in-Yitzhar-605165

Settlers injure two IDF soldiers near Yitzhar, Netanyahu condemns attacks
The settlement is often associated with right-wing extremism.
by JERUSALEM POST STAFF
October 21, 2019 00:37

Okay. See my point? There are settlers who are not popular with Israelis in general
There were Jewish terrorist groups who were not popular with Israelis in general during the 1948 war.

Please, make distinctions.

Most Israelis want a deal with the Arab states.
Most Israelis want to see a two state solution.
Most Israelis want Hamas to come back to the negotiating table.
ETC..

 

Them war criminals are there living in them settlements because the government of the Jew state protects them, and the minister of defense actually has a word about how and where to expand... meaning where he is going to ethnically cleanse around.

Almost half of the Jews want the Arabs in Israel to be ethnically cleansed. (I can source that). The Jews massively support the idea to have and expand settlements in the WB,... which is a war crime, by voting in the governments who do that. The Jews massively are part of have been part of will be part of the institute who does that war crime of protecting and expanding settlements in the WB. That's the truth of it. And with these facts it's simply not true that they want peace with Arab states, a two state solution or negotiate this at some table.

 

And again, its complicated. The Israeli parliament relied upon minority groups
for government. Thus the Haredi, the Jewish religious groups, for example, can
have an over-proportionate influence on the Knesset (parliament) despite being
fewer in number than secular Jews.

As time has gone by the Jewish attitude towards Arabs has deteriorated. Israel
has move more to the right. Peace groups find themselves isolated - particularly
after Arafat starting bombing the Jews with his refusal to sign off on the Oslo
thing. I read of one terrorist who followed a group of young Jewish peace activists
into a cafe and blew them up - these kids supported the Arabs.

 

Netanyahu's add on facebook was that racist that it got suspended.
It says enough that so many people vote for him.

The accord was signed. And according to the accord, the IDF had to abandon the West Bank in 5 years. They never did and instead the Jew started to ethnically cleanse and expand their settlements again. That says enough that they can not be trusted and do not want a 2 state solution.

 

the Oslo accords never said that Israel would leave all of the West Bank after 5 years.

meanwhile the Palestinians decided to start another violent revolution simply because netanyahu broke a hole in the wall.

and because of the second intifada there is now a mass wall separating the West Bank from Israel. Which appears to have been the smartest thing these israelis have ever done