Hamas fires rockets at Israel

I've not only stated but repeatedly proven & supported the facts that:

1. Israel faced absolutely no "genocidal" threat as you claim.
2. Israel's generals had been planning for the '67 War for 16 years.
3. Israel fired the first shot in their long planned 1967 Land Grab.


"The Egyptian Army concentrations in the Sinai approaches do not prove that Nasser was really about to attack us. We must be honest with ourselves. We decided to attack him." M. Begin

http://www.nytimes.com/1982/08/21/world/excerpts-from-begin-speech-at-national-defense-college.html


“I do not think Nasser wanted war. The two divisions which he sent to the Sinai, on May 14, would not have been sufficient to start an offensive against Israel. He knew it and we knew it.” (Yitzhak Rabin)

https://www.foreignpolicyjournal.co...ttack-on-egypt-in-june-67-was-not-preemptive/

 

Still responding to week old posts huh???

Lololol!!!

 

RE: Hamas fires rockets at Israel
⁜→ Ronstar, Grau, et al,

Sometimes it is wiser to ponder the commentary before you write it.

(COMMENT)

Sometimes it is wiser to ponder the commentary before you write it. And sometimes the response is not time-sensitive.

(ORDER of BATTLE)

◈ Egyptian Army

Official Strength of 210,000 men in June 1967, the Egyptian Army had some 100,000 troops in the Sinai Peninsula and approximately 50,000 in Yemen with the remainder stationed to the west of the Suez Canal to protect Cairo. The Sinai Front Command comprised some six divisions with 930 tanks, 200 assault guns and 900 artillery pieces.​

◈ Jordanian Army

The 55,000-man Jordanian Army was divided into the Eastern and Western commands, with the division marked by the Jordan River. In June 1967, the bulk of the Jordanian forces was deployed in the West Bank in two main areas: in Samaria in the north, based in and around the towns of Jenin and Nablus and in the south in the area from Ramallah through Jerusalem down to Hebron.​

◈ Syrian Army

The Syrian Army numbered 63,000. The field fortifications were held by eight brigades of which five were infantry brigades, each with an attached tank battalion of T-34/85s and SU-100 self-propelled guns, holding the first two lines and three armoured and mechanized brigades along and behind the third line. In addition there were four reserve infantry brigades deployed between Damascus and Kuneitra, as well as seven battalions of the National Guard militia that were deployed to bolster the defensive lines. These forces were divided into 'Group Brigades' in Syrian terminology although this was an administrative convenience rather than a tactical deployment.​

₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪ ​

◈ Israeli Forces

On full mobilization, the Israeli Army comprised some 250,000 men of whom almost three-quarters were reservists and one-quarter conscripts. Out of its 25 brigades, nine were armoured, two were fully mechanized and ten were infantry, some partly mechanized, as well as their paratroop brigades which also acted as elite assault troops. The brigades were assigned to six ugdas, or division-size task forces, whose composition varied according to their assigned mission and geographical area.​

(COMMENT)

As you can see, the Arab League had ≈ 218 thousand men posed on the border, in comparison to Israel's 250 thousand. In terms of Egypt, 930 Tanks 200 assault guns and 900 artillery pieces. 900 Tanks is the equivalent of 4 Tank Heavy Divisions (not just two divisions as stated here).

{NOTE} WWII: As a "heavy" division, the 3rd Armored possessed two armored regiments totaling four medium tank battalions and two of light tanks (18 companies) instead of three tank battalions containing both (12 companies), 232 medium tanks instead of the 168 allotted a light armored division, and with attached units numbered over 16,000 men, instead of the normal 12,000 found in the light armored divisions. Each division type had an infantry component of three mechanized infantry battalions.​

The presentation of the facts here (in the linked sources by Grau) is a misrepresentation of the real events. Israel had to look at the reality of the situation. Of course, Israel had the choice of standing pat and letting the Egyptian Army get into the best posture to cross the Forward Edge of the Battle Area and engage the Israelis, or → Israel could take the initiative. Think of the consequences for the Jewish State had the Egyptian Armor been able to penetrate a mere 50 miles into Israel.
..........
Most Respectfully,
R

 

The only thing that matters to anyone following our exchange is the fact that I've thoroughly debunked the two major falsehoods you've been asserting.

1. No, Israel was not facing a "genocidal" threat prior to initiating their '67 Land Grab

2. Yes, Israel did long plan for and start the '67 War during which they committed numerous war crimes. (1), (2)

I can support my assertions. Why can't you?

(1) "Egyptian POW graves said found in Sinai"
https://www.upi.com/Archives/1995/09/20/Egyptian-POW-graves-said-found-in-Sinai/3651811569600/

EXCERPT "An Israeli historian subsequently said Israeli soldiers executed about 300 Egyptian POWs during the 1967 war. Egyptian rights campaigners and private lawyers have demanded an inquiry and a war-crimes trial, as well as compensation from Israel."CONTINUED


(2) "Israelis admit war crimes"
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/israelis-admit-war-crimes-1596725.html

EXCERPT "Six Day War atrocities: Veteran's account of captives in Egyptian uniforms being shot in the desert adds fuel to scandal; 'A prisoner was given a shovel and started to dig. Then he was fired at'"CONTINUED

 

So you admit that Egypt banned Israeli traffic through the Suez Canal and the Straits of Tiran in 1956?

Good to hear

 

Please stick to the topics we were discussing rather than moving the goalposts.

Based on the quotes, sources and eyewitness accounts I've submitted over the last few days, do you now see that:

1. Israel was never facing what you called a "genocidal" threat prior to the '67 War.

2. Israel's generals had long planned to seize more land prior to the '67 War(1) and Israel was the one to fire the first shot:

"Mordechaï Hod—whose forces had annihilated the Egyptian, Syrian and Jordanian aviation in little more than an hour on 5 June 1967—declared: “for sixteen years, we had been planning what took place in those first 80 minutes. We lived with that plan, we ate with it, we slept with it. We never stopped improving it.” (1)


(1) "How the Israeli Generals Prepared The Conquest Long Before 1967"
https://orientxxi.info/magazine/how-the-israeli-generals-prepared-the-conquest-long-before-1967,1904

 

Re:

Please note that I have already supported in previous Posts the fact that Israel had long prepared for and welcomed future hostilities with its Arab neighbors.
Israel's generals were not the least bit concerned about Nassar's troop positioning and, along with US Intelligence analysts, quite confident that Israel could easily defeat the combined, crudely equipped, poorly lead and demoralized Arab armies with no threat to Israel's security.

Thanks,
G.

 

Please stop obsessively responding to comments from 1.5 weeks ago, its very obnoxious.

 

You only consider it obnoxious because I've thoroughly debunked two falsehoods about the '67 War that you raised and you continued to repeat.

1. Israel was clearly not facing a "genocidal" threat prior to the '67 War.
2. Israel had long planned for their 1967 Land Grab and Israel was the one to initiate hostilities.

It's simple. If you don't want your falsehoods debunked, don't write things that aren't true.
If you don't want to debate an issue, simply don't respond.

 

wow, still at it huh?

very sad and pathetic

 

oh yes, Egypt did threaten genocide against Israel:

Our aim is the full restoration of the rights of the Palestinian people. In other words, we aim at the destruction of the State of Israel. The immediate aim: perfection of Arab military might. The national aim: the eradication of Israel." – President Nasser of Egypt, November 18, 1965

"Brothers, it is our duty to prepare for the final battle in Palestine." – Nasser, Palestine Day, 1967

"Our basic objective will be the destruction of Israel. The Arab people want to fight . . . The mining of Sharm el Sheikh is a confrontation with Israel. Adopting this measure obligates us to be ready to embark on a general war with Israel." – Nasser, May 27, 1967

"We will not accept any ... coexistence with Israel. ... Today the issue is not the establishment of peace between the Arab states and Israel .... The war with Israel is in effect since 1948." – Nasser, May 28, 1967
Cairo Radio Statements:

May 19, 1967: "This is our chance Arabs, to deal Israel a mortal blow of annihilation, to blot out its entire presence in our holy land"

May 22, 1967: "The Arab people is firmly resolved to wipe Israel off the map"


May 25, 1967: "Millions of Arabs are ... preparing to blow up all of America's interests, all of America's installations, and your entire existence, America."

May 27, 1967: "We challenge you, Eshkol, to try all your weapons. Put them to the test; they will spell Israel's death and annihilation."

May 30, 1967: "With the closing of the Gulf of Akaba, Israel is faced with two alternatives either of which will destroy it; it will either be strangled to death by the Arab military and economic boycott, or it will perish by the fire of the Arab forces encompassing it from the South from the North and from the East."




http://www.sixdaywar.org/content/threats.asp

 

Words, words, words....

What Nasser may or may not have said is meaningless.

You claimed that Israel faced a "genocidal" threat and that was its pretext for starting the '67 War.

Israel's generals and US Intelligence, however, knew that Israel would win over the poorly led, already demoralized and poorly equipped combined Arab armies:

According to at least one of Israel's participating generals, nonsense about Israel facing a genocidal threat is so distorted as to be insulting to the many who know better:

"To claim that the Egyptian troops massed at the border could in any way threaten the existence of Israel is not only an insult to the intelligence of any person capable of analysing this type of situation, but above all an insult to the Israeli army.” [General Matti Peled, Chief Logistics Officer] (1)

Chaim Herzog goes on to say: “There was no danger of annihilation. The Israeli general staff never thought there was” (Maariv, 4 April 1972).

Ezer Weitzman says plainly: “The hypothesis of extermination was never envisaged in any serious meeting.” (Haaretz,29 March 1972)

Yitzhak Rabin asserted: “We were not threatened with genocide on the eve of the Six-Day War, and no such possibility ever occurred to us.” (Ibid.) (1)

No only was the danger of a "genocidal threat" laughably absurd to far more knowledgeable individuals but the Israeli General staff had planned for the '67 Land Grab for over a decade.



(1) "How the Israeli Generals Prepared The Conquest Long Before 1967"
https://orientxxi.info/magazine/how-the-israeli-generals-prepared-the-conquest-long-before-1967,1904

 

haha

easy for you to disregard the genodical intentions of the Dictator of Egypt towards Israel.

in 1967, without your luxury of retrospect, the Israelis had to take seriously Nasser's constant calls for the destruction of Israel.

and then when Nasser closed the Straits of Tiran and kicked out the peacekeepers, war was inevitable. The only question was who would fire the first shot. Israel had EVERY right to use force to reopen the Straits of Tiran.

too bad Jordan foolishly joined the war by attacking Israel, thereby losing the West Bank.

the Arabs were very good at making terrible decisions,.

 

What part of: "“There was no danger of annihilation. The Israeli general staff never thought there was” (1) is unclear to you?

According to Israel's General Staff, there was no chance of the Arab armies invading Israel but Nasser's bellicosity provided them with precisely the excuse they wanted for starting a war for which they had planned for 16 years to seize more land.

"Mordechaï Hod—whose forces had annihilated the Egyptian, Syrian and Jordanian aviation in little more than an hour on 5 June 1967—declared: “for sixteen years, we had been planning what took place in those first 80 minutes. We lived with that plan, we ate with it, we slept with it. We never stopped improving it.” (1)


(1) "How the Israeli Generals Prepared The Conquest Long Before 1967"
https://orientxxi.info/magazine/how-the-israeli-generals-prepared-the-conquest-long-before-1967,1904

 

You can not have a genocide against a country. Only against against an ethnicity.
And there is not 1 reference to any ethnicity being killed in any of your examples.
So you're claim is just so not there. lol

All you got that they he wants the rights of the Palestinians to be restored.
The rights that the west and the Israeli Jewish population removed, by cancelling Israel.
There is no harm in there. Nobody needs to die over it.

 

Israel attacked Egypt in 1956 to capture the Suez Canal together with the UK and France. It was all in the last days that thug colonialism was alright against the brown people. It totally justifies the closing of the straits of Tiran and Suez by Egypt for Israel. Dunno what you're whining about.

 

Even today the Palestinian Gazans fired missles at Israel.
Arabs do not want peace.
They want it All.. including Europe.

 

Let's look at it this way . . . were it not for the generosity of the European member states' taxpayers, Hamas wouldn't be able to afford to procure any rockets to fire at Israel. Hold that thought?

 

My personal opinion is that most Arabs do not want peace.
The late Israeli P.M Golda said "If Arabs lay down their arms .. peace will come to the Middle East, If Israelis do that - there will be No Israelis left alive"

 

And my opinion is that the founding of the Zionist colony in Palestine is one of the biggest mistakes of the last century.

 

Jordan is Palestine.

 

That's not completely correct...

... from here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine_(region)

https://www.timesofisrael.com/landing-in-tel-aviv-iberia-pilot-says-welcome-to-palestine/
This honorable pilot was right,
though later he corrected himself to keep his job.

 

Hamas does the firing, not Gazans. The poor bloody Gazans have to suffer the consequences of it every time it kicks off.

 

Maybe Israel uses exaggerated force to turn Gazans against Hamas.

BTW, the strategy of Moral Bombing in WW2 didn't work properly.
The stupid Zionists could actually know that.

 

'Maybe' this, 'maybe' that - what point are you making? Are you suggesting that Israel shouldn't retaliate against Hamas?