Hamas rockets reach Jerusalem and Tel Aviv

Why didn't you quote my entire post?

I am not Scottish I am Welsh, Wales used to be an independent country until a English king waged a war against us financed by the Jews as it happens. Admittedly the English King reneged on the deal and expelled the Jews from Britain, one of the first programs against the Jews in Europe. Not that I give a monkeys mind, I do dislike the Jews, I have empathy with them we were both screwed by the English. Not that I dislike the English either because all this happened so long ago it should have no bearing on our times. I only mention it to show how what would appear to be to un-connected peoples can have connections in their past not commonly known. Maybe the Zionists could learn the lesson to forget historical prejudices!

Now, anybody with a modicum of intellectual honesty can see that the "I do dislike Jews" is a typo. I invite anyone on this forum to read the entire bit above and it is clear I just missed out "not".

Point 1 I get it very clearly. The state of Israel is a construct, the Zionists have used every ruse possible, every trick and collaborated with anyone to convince first the Jews and then the rest of the world that Israel must exist and it must be and always be Zionist. I've just told you that the people of Ireland have agreed to abide by the majority vote. So yes it is very possible that Ulster in many years to come will cease to have a Protestant majority.

Point 2. Sorry if a point of historical fact annoys you. But there we are.

Point 3. As I have written above, if you showed any form of intellectual honesty you would of quoted the whole paragraph, but you didn't and to be honest considering the history of Zionism and their lies it does not surprise me. So your arguments are superfluous, but I am sure you have convinced some on this forum I dislike Jews. That is how you people work. But a lie however often spoken is still a lie. And that must stick in the thought of any Zionist who has bothered to find the truth.

Zionism began as a small intellectual group with an idea of a Jewish State. Zionism has existed for about 150 years the rest of the 2000 years the Jews believed in the Diaspora. Only since the end of WW2 has Zionism has majority support and only the Zionists would make political capital out of the Holocaust. Even after 6 million had died(the majority of which were probably not Zionists) you cannot get the majority of Jews to live in your little bit of "heaven" Zionism can legitimately claim to have the support of the majority of Jews now, but not to the point where the majority of those Jews would live in Israel.

Zionist don't look people in the eye, they shell them from a safe distance or use drones. They contain a population in a huge prison camp, they starve them, they deprive them of basic humans rights, electricity, clean water and then when they are softened up enough they send in the glorious IDF in tanks and armored vehicles. There are only 2 occasions when a Zionist's looks another man in the eye, one when he has a gun on him. and two is when another Zionist has killed him from a far.

I do not presume to understand the Palestinians or the Zionists but I can see the biggest con job in history.

I can understand why you wish to silence the critics but unfortunately for you this is a world forum and some people might wish to point out some unpleasant facts about the Zionist movement, tough you cannot bomb me into submission. And all your pathetic little insults will not deter me one jot. I notice you never refuted the the fact that Zionists planted a bomb on a Jewish refugee ship, or hung a Jew who helped one of your own groups.

No follow the Zionist way, insult, ridicule, pretend that everyone who criticises Zionism must be prejudiced against Jews. Zionism is not THE Jews stop acting as if both are the same.

And of course at the end all your prejudiced rant you ask me to do you a favour! I will not, I will keep showing what duplicitous rubbish the Zionist movement spouts. I will keep pointing out the acts of terrorism the Zionist movement has perputrated. I will keep challenging your revisionist history. And most of all I will keep pointing out that Zionism is NOT the Jews.

 

Yes !! Let's go your way my friend !!
Europe killed 6 million Educated, enlightened & civilized Jews.
In return we received in exchange, tens of millions of violent, fanatic & ignorant Muslims.
Every Jew that leaves Europe is our loss.

 

Yes, I would agree with you, Europe did kill 6 million Jews, definitely civilized, most educated, and whilst I do not believe that anyone who is religious is truly enlightened, I do understand your point.
Every Jew that leaves Europe and especially Britain is indeed a great lost, Britain has gained immeasurably from it's immigrant populations particularly the Jews. I would say to any Jew thinking of leaving Britain for Israel please reconsider, Britain is a much safer place for you and your children and whilst I will not deny Britain still has prejudiced people, by and large the majority of British people are very tolerant and fair. The British have allowed the Jews their own court's in this country for many years.

However the Muslim's who have come to Britain are in the vast majority not violent, ignorant or fanatics. Yes there are some who are but Britain will deal with them, and just as the Fascist's could never gain power in our country, neither will the fanatical Islamist's. We stood with the Jews against Mosley's black-shirts.

 

I alrady explained in a previous document that the ownership of the Land was owmed by four absentee owners living in Beirut, Cairo and Damascus these fellows (all of them) sold their land to Jews

My pleasure.

 

Yeah, you just keep telling yourself that. Who are you trying to convince?

 

Typical and entirely predictable; comment unfavourably about Israeli transgression and you're an anti-Semite, Jew-hater and probably a terror-enabler. It gets old. I doubt very much that your 'expertise' is any greater or lesser than those whom you criticise for their 'lack' of it.

 

Israel is, by far, the most advanced nation in the Middle East with its strong social welfare system that cares for its people from cradle to grave and boasts an excellent single-payer health care system, but not even its most fanatical and strident apologist can begin to justify its slaughter of innocents.

The harassment to which Israel's populace is subjected by the lowlife criminals in Hamas demands a police action directed at the criminals, not the wholesale killing of families that are confined to their neighbourhood.

Would actually interdicting the rocketeers be harder and more dangerous than bombing their neighbourhood? Yes, far more so, but continuing to kill folks only perpetuates the problem, and some would rather see it effectively addressed and solved.

This approach has been tried repeatedly and proven worse than useless.

"There is a bad guy somewhere in that community; we need to savage and ravage the community," may be the easy way for security forces to confront crime when they have a monumental advantage in destructive ability, but don't expect it ever to be successful.

,

 

Pay attention ... in Italy we say that where there isn't enough water the duck doesn't float ...

What I mean is that Hamas has got anyway a certain local support. One can say that Palestinians in Gaza are undergoing Hamas dictatorship, but we have to remind that in Gaza Hamas obtained a large quantity of votes in the last elections and the intentions of that "political" party were clear to Palestinians.

We can argue that Palestinians voted Hamas because of internal reasons [Fatah corruption over all], but we cannot dismiss as irrelevant the matter of fact that Hamas charta and Hamas declaration before of the elections were known among Palestinians.

Hamas members are not aliens coming from an other planet, they are in great part Palestinians [I cannot exclude contributions of different origins].

So we are dealing with an electorate which made a "dangerous choice", knowing the risk they were going to run ...

 

Yes. I know but what I wanted to know was whether he meant the jurisdiction or the city itself because that's how the Ottomans did the census.

 

Let's put them in West Texas and New Mexico. No-one would even notice.

 

Killing voters and their families for having had limited choices is neither morally defencible, nor strategically effective.

It's tragically obvious that doing so guarantees that the criminals in Palestine will continue to successfully elicit the depravity on the part of Netanyahu. Morality aside, it has been well established as being a futile policy.

Interdicting the criminals, and abandoning the concerted suppression of the Palestinian economy is the only approach conducive to stability and normality for the region and its peoples. The status quo means that Palestinians have very little to lose, and that is not good for Israelis.

 

Trying and killing Israeli voters and their families by means of rockets and missiles doesn't help Palestinians ...

[btw, Arab Israelis included, I remember a friend of mine, an Arab woman living in Nazareth who says that "the greatest Jewish settlement in Palestine is just Israel". Well, when from south Lebanon they targeted the city with missiles the IDF carried also her to the villages along the coast to protect her and her family. The IDF didn't make difference among Jewish and Arab Israelis, this was for accuracy].

This said, as I was mentioning above, Palestinians have voted Hamas also because of the corruption of Fatah and this is a political problem of the Palestinians [which is not that connected with how Palestinian economy goes or not, corruption can become a system, also in rich Italy we have seen a real diffused system of political corruption: in early 90's it caused the fall of the First Republic].

The problem is the absence of a democratic alternative to Hamas. To help Palestinians to see our support being transformed in fuel for the fire ... Mah ... it's not a great perspective.

"interdicting the criminals"

I agree, but Palestinians have to do that, and they weren't inclined to do this already before that the first Gaza crisis begun.

"abandoning the concerted suppression of the Palestinian economy"

About this point, I'm more open: sanctions, embargo and similar have never obtained great results [remember Saddam ...]. Probably, not to feed the economy of terror, we could imagine a kind of barter with Gaza [products from there and as payment goods, aids, food, construction materials ...]. At least until Hamas will be active [in this way] in the territory.

 

Of course not, and the Hamas criminals' gross ineffectiveness in doing so is not a defence; they would eagerly kill more innocent Israelis than Netanyahu is killing innocent Palestinians if they could.

Do you feel that Israel should cooperate with the UN in enthusiastically supporting the establishment of a stable, functioning Palestinian government that can enforce the law and achieve economic self-sufficiency?

Dropping bombs on the trapped populace whenever fanatics on the other side lob missiles into Israeli territory and terrorize its people assures that no progress will be achieved.

Why not abandon a demonstrably counterproductive knee-jerk response, and alleviate the enforced Palestinian misery to serve one's own interests?

 

Why not ...

The problem with such an alternative strategy is that they were already doing something similar, before than Hamas faced Fatah taking over Gaza.

To defeat the terrorist faction of Hamas requires a good military organization, a good weaponry [vehicles included] and defensive systems [if today Fatah faced Hamas again, from Gaza they would annihilate the Palestinian territories in a while launching hundreds of rockets ...].

But Fatah has reached a political agreement with this Hamas.

And ... [what a coincidence!] as in other moments in which something positive was happening, in a way or an other, the tens has increased again, up to the beginning of a new conflict [I have already noted that in both the fields there are extremist factions "blowing on the fire"].

So, what could we do?

I have resigned from the status of "reasonable observer" and I prefer to take side, standing with Israel and living day by day, crisis after crisis [until there will be a part of the Arab world not ready to accept the existence of the State of Israel ... I don't see a possibility to find a path to a stable and lasting peace].

 

And I will continue to be reasonable, and recognize that there is shared blame for perpetuating the carnage.

 

The Gazan finaly hit two Israeli girls.
They must be very proud.
The girls they harmed are Arab Israeli.
When will they figure they only heart themselves?
When will their blood thirsty stupidity end?

- - - Updated - - -

The Gazan finaly hit two Israeli girls.
They must be very proud.
The girls they harmed are Arab Israeli.
When will they figure they only heart themselves?
When will their blood thirsty stupidity end?

 

Hamas firing rockets at Israel is as useful as an ant biting a Rhino.

 

No the British did not stand alone. Don't be absurd. Go find out how many Canadians died. Go find out how many South Africans, Australians, New Zealanders, Indians, Ghurkas, died. The British Commonwealth supported Britain from day 1.

My father flew mosquitoes in the RCAF.

The British were not alone. Yes it took the US awhile but they were there too and without them no victory. Teh US involvement tipped the war in the allies favour. That is an economic fact. Without their economiuc power we would have lost that war.

In any event the commonwealth was there from the get go and that included 30,000 Zionist Jews from Palestine. As well there was an active Jewish underground throughout Europe many of whom were partisans with the Serbs. Your history is selective and it insults the contribution of the Commonwealth nations.

The British are to be commended for their valiant efforts against Hitler but to suggets they are the only people who fought Nazis is idiotic. What is more idiotic is to ignore for example the righteous gentiles across Europe who died saving Jews.

Those righteous gentiles are commemorated in Israel. We know their names. They include Poles, Germans, Dutch, Danish, Norweigans. Swedes, Chinese, on and on.

 

Everyone needs a hobby.

 

I wish to make it clear to this board why I criticized Raeb's words as anti semitic. I do not believe someone who criticizes Israeli policies is necessarily anti-semitic. However when someone comes on this board and engages in comments that negatively stereotype all Zionist Jews yes I challenge it as anti-semitic and I will explain why.

I would argue the attempt to immunize anti-semitic references by placing the word "Zionist" in front of the word Jew does not sanitize ot/

Raeb accused Zionist Jews as all being duplicitous. That is a stereotype and one used against all Jews Zionist or not by anti-semites. Coincidence?


Professor Irwin Cotler, Professor of Law at McGill University and a leading scholar of human rights,identified nine aspects of what he considered the "new anti-Semitism":

One of them he described as "political antisemitism" or the active exercise of denying the right of Jewish people's right to self-determination.

Why is it the same people who call Jews names for believing they should have their own nation have zero problem with Muslim states, Catholic states, the Anglican state...why is it they single out we Jews simply because we choose to want to live as a collective in a state as this Raeb does. How does that make us duplicitous?

I would argue that the attempt to de-legitimize the concept of Jews wanting to live in a Jewish state as being duplicitous simply takes an old anti-semitic canard and recycles it.


In classical antisemitism people manigesrted discrimination against Jews as individuals whereas today with the new antisemitism we see is expressed by discriminating against the entire Jewish people or any Jews,for choosing to express ourselves as a state collective. No that does not make us duplicitous, evil, etc.

Raeb has tried justify his hateful assault upon how we Jews self-define ourselves. Where does he get off stating because we choose to live in our own state it makes us duplicitous?

I would arguye that while "classical or traditional anti-Semitism" manifests the discrimination against, denial of or assault upon the rights of Jews to live as equal members of whatever host society they inhabit, Raeb's version version of anti-Semitism justifies hatred of Jews because we believe we have a right to live as an equal member of the family of nations.

If Raeb came on this forum and criticized specific policies, that would have been one thing but he did not. He come on this board and engaged in a hateful stereotypes on all Zionist Jews and then tried to justify that expression of hatred as reasonable and me as intellectually dishonest.

So I challenge it. Using the tragedy going on now to insult Jews for choosing to live as a collective won't stop this conflict.

I have never come on this board to deny Palestinians a right to a state.

None of us Zionists want Palestinians dying.

I challenge people lwho challenge the idea Jews can be a nation. You want to criticize Israeli policies, I have zero problem.

Go the next step and engage in references that attack all Israeli Jews or Jews like me as duplicitous for believing we have the right to a state, I will challenge that as any fair person should.

 

From June 1940 when the French capitulated to June 1941 when Russia was invaded Britain stood alone in Europe against the Nazis. Britain of course in those days included her Dominions of which Canada was one. And no one in Britain forgets the valour of the servicemen who fought with us at that time, Poles in particular actually being amongst the bravest of the airmen who fought in The Battle of Britain (hint the clues in the title). I am sorry I did not make this clear to you obviously your knowledge of WW2 is very limited. That being the case I will need to explain to you what happened when the French capitulated. Hitler was virtually master of Europe he fully expected Britain and her Empire to except his very generous peace offer which basically said "leave Germany alone to do what it wants in Europe and the British can keep her Empire.
Churchill was virtually alone in the British cabinet to refuse to even consider peace with Hitler. Remember at this time everyone thought the Germans would win the war, it was not like now where we just assume Hitler was always going to lose. How does this effect the Jews of Europe?, well put simply if Hitler had been free to invade Russia without the small but awkward little Britain always being there to open up a second front, it is quite possible Hitler would of won. The USA would never have entered the war in Europe. All off this is accepted historical fact and well documented, of course I cannot vouch for Zionist revisionist theory.
Hitler winning would have been a bad thing for the Jews I guess you will agree with me on that. Although I am aware of some anti-zionist's who believe that the Zionists were in league with the Nazis I think that is B$$$$$ks.

Who's this "we" your referring to?

You would have to be an idiot to think I suggested that Britain fought the entire WW2 on her own, and I do not think you are, You would have to be an idiot not to know exactly what I was talking about when I said Britain stood alone, and you are not, therefor I conclude that you are yet again trying to discredit a poster by being disingenuous with the truth. Perhaps you think that if you throw enough mud some will stick.

Still want to challenge me about whether I am British?
Still want to accuse me of being against Jews?
Still want to explain that the Zionists did not kill 250 Jewish refugees by drowning them?
Still want to explain why Zionist terrorist's hung another Jew from a tree even after the ingun had told them he had helped them?

 

LOL, so you claim the Israelis killed one person wrongfully. A thug or two took the law to their hands and murdered one person in 70 year.
One person in 70 years ?
Hell, the Syrians have done so for 300,000 people during the last 3 years.
This is all you've got ? and it was during their fight for creating a state.
One of the funniest arguments I've heard so far.
Just like Bilam from the bible, came to curse, turned out he was praising.

 

No I am pointing out the duplicity of Zionist's with their holier than thou attitude to terrorism. Oh by the way I know that civilian deaths don't really bother you, but you didn't mention the 250 Jewish refugee's drowned! And of course that "thug" became your leader!.

 

I see you cannot write a single line that is not racist. You don't know me and certainly don't know what bothers me and what does not.
In fact, just the other day I published here a post about mass civilian murder in Iraq.
Neither you nor any other of the anti Israelis here bothered to write a single word about it.

 

Sorry I didn't realise that Zionist's were now a race, when did that happen then?