Happy Birthday, Jesus. Thanks for the gift of American Freedom!

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by usfan, Dec 25, 2013.

  1. usfan

    usfan Well-Known Member

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    As a student of history & an armchair philosopher, i regularly examine the progression of events, ideological thinking, & how we got to where we are.. the basis for our ideology. Most people know me as a zealous american, who gets misty eyed when reading the declaration of independence, & is filled with awe & amazement at the simple truths in it. The basic concept of individual freedom is unique in human history, especially as a basis for governance.

    So i have often pondered the events in history & the evolution of thinking that got us to this point. I see the beginnings of america in the roots of the reformation. There was a backlash to the establishment religious institution, & the idea that the authority of religious instruction should be in the written texts, not the edicts of the hierarchy. Many religious groups & philosophies went to the new world to be free to practice their version, or dream of a religious utopia. Many of them were no more tolerant to alternate views than the oppressive system they left. But the idea was born. The new world became a place where tolerance to other religious views was the norm.. it was institutionalized, & eventually stated clearly in the 1st amendment of the american constitution.

    But before that, the magna carta emphasized the concept of Law. Law is something deeper.. an inner morality & sense that everyone has. It does not need to be constantly spelled out, or especially, arbitrarily changed at the whims of the king. This also has its roots in the biblical texts, specifically, the writings of Paul the apostle.

    Ro2:14For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, 15in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them,…

    So Law was something internal.. something that EVERYONE had to respect, not just the serfs of the kingdom. Even the king was subject to the Law of God. But the concept of freedom was more obscure.. the 'powers that be' were not keen on telling people about that part. They loved to tell them about submission to the king, & respecting the law of God, but didn't talk much about freedom.. until the reformation. More & more people were becoming literate.. the central reason was to read the sacred texts of the bible. And what did it say?

    Gal5:1 It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.

    Freedom?!? We have been set free?!? But wait! There's more!

    Gal5:13 You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh; rather, serve one another humbly in love. 14 For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”

    Ok, so there is responsibility, too. We are free, but still must live under the Law of love.. We can live as free men.. in harmony if we follow the golden rule that Christ taught.

    The very first point in the magna carta had to do with freedom.. for the church, & the local leaders.. they were pleading (threatening) for liberty from an oppressive monarchy.

    1. In the first place we grant to God and confirm by this our present charter for ourselves and our heirs in perpetuity that the English Church is to be free and to have all its rights fully and its liberties entirely. We furthermore grant and give to all the freemen of our realm for ourselves and our heirs in perpetuity the liberties written below to have and to hold to them and their heirs from us and our heirs in perpetuity. ~magna carta

    By the time we get to america, it is phrased like this:

    We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed.. ~declaration of independence

    Now we've got the concept of human equality.. no divine right of kings. We are ALL equal, & govt exists solely to secure our freedoms. The concept of america has been born!

    Here's a summary of the progression:
    1. Mat7:12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.
    2. Law, not edict, is supreme. The inner Law trumps human edicts.
    3. Christ has set us free. The inner law provides liberty.
    4. The purpose of govt is to secure our rights & freedoms.

    So thank you, Jesus, for the gift of American Freedom. We would not have it but for your teachings.. oh, & Happy Birthday!!
     
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  2. Diuretic

    Diuretic Well-Known Member

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    Don't submit it in any academic work.
     
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  3. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    ha! well said.

    also, it's not jesus' birthday :woot:
     
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  4. usfan

    usfan Well-Known Member

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    No, academic work needs distortions, marxist philosophy, & statist ideology.. this little thought is nothing like that. :D

    What day is it? What day is any day? It's not important what day it actually was.. which no one knows, but when it is recognized.. that's all this is.

    Good job on missing the point, though!! :clapping:
     
  5. Spiritus Libertatis

    Spiritus Libertatis New Member Past Donor

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    A bunch of angry British people from 237 years ago gave you your freedom, not some Jewish guy who's been dead for 2000 years.
     
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  6. Kranes56

    Kranes56 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, this is overlooking a lot of history.
     
  7. Flintc

    Flintc New Member

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    Another example of "here's the conclusion. Now let's see what I can confect to support it."

    Maybe it's useful to point out, once again, that every known human culture has had, and followed, some version of the Golden Rule. That rule works because people are sufficiently similar in all relevant ways.

    For some reason, I'm reminded of a country song from back in the early 1950s called "Thank you dear God for what you done, thank you for victory in Korea!"
     
  8. TastyWheat

    TastyWheat New Member

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    Whether the O.P. is being serious or satirical, it did put a smile on my face. :-D
     
  9. Anobsitar

    Anobsitar Banned

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    Tell me something about a source for "human equality" independent from the bible with a big influence for the freedom of the people in the USA, academics.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8WGlhJKlGo
     
  10. Anobsitar

    Anobsitar Banned

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    If I understand you the right way then you are happy because Christmas is for you not the celebration of the birth of Jesus the Christ. But why are you happy about?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsHKOS8YCww
     
  11. Anobsitar

    Anobsitar Banned

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    The "jewish guys" fought some thousand years ago for their freedom against the pharao of Egypt, a very very long time before "a bunch of angry british people" fought against the king of England for their freedom.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VSEqoU7DA0
     
  12. Anobsitar

    Anobsitar Banned

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    Indeed existing. Jimmie Osborne, 1950. >See: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWSMsZyWi-Y

    You are remembering this song maybe because of the mistakes in international politics of the USA during the times of the Bush administration. Bush had nothing else to do then to set friendly nations - like my country Germany for example - under a completly senseless pressure and he liked to do completly senseless wars: the war in Iraq for example caused in my view on the world a situation out of control for anyone. This are "loud" mistakes Bush made. A "silent" mistake was that his administraition allowed by ¿intentional? ignorance North Korea to develope nuclear weapons. The new dictator in North-Korea ... Kim-jong-un ... killed for example his uncle a short time ago and is completly compatible with all other dark dictators in history. And he has nuclear weapons. Not good.

    It's not easy to say what will come now - and as funny as such a song sounds - a lot of peole have good reasons to be thankful to the USA of those days even now today - although I hate it to have to say so, because I'm on my own an enemy of every war. But with this background I think it was and is not wrong if people in the USA are thankfull to god.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCVaupUXNeY
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9MBGYliL65Q
     
  13. Questerr

    Questerr Well-Known Member

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    Actually there is zero evidence that the Jews were ever slaves in Egypt.
     
  14. J0NAH

    J0NAH Banned

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    hardly zero, there is the bible and there is the slavery that existed under ptolemic rule recorded by polybius.
     
  15. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    even if that actually happened, what does it have to do with american freedoms today?

    ps: didn't god mess with egyptians to the point they gladly handed back his jews? if I remember correctly, this would imply they didn't fight at all.
     
  16. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    happy aint the right word. amused is more like it :)

    but in answer to your question, I'm amused because so many xians go in for xmas extravaganza, not realising they're celebrating a pagan ritual with their trees, gifting, and yule blessings, etc etc. the xians here know, of course, but there are a hell of a lot out there who have no idea. that's marvellous!
     
  17. independent american

    independent american New Member

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    By being born in this world as a child, Jesus became one of us. Wow, that's an amazing thing! God became human so he could save humans. God can save us from all the mess, but he won't do it against our free will. God is not like governments and other organizations.

    It's incredible how bitter atheists can't relax and enjoy Christmas, even if they don't believe in the spiritual aspects of it.

    They say all their hysterical opposition to Nativity scenes in public parks or Christmas carols being sung in public schools is justified, because the government might establish a religion, something prohibited by the Constitution, the 1st Amendment.

    If you're in the Army, at some bases, in some states, you can't say Merry Christmas. http://www.ibtimes.com/merry-christm...report-1519576

    However, the argument about establishing a religion would be valid only if all the soldiers in the military would be required to say "Merry Christmas" or if it was mandatory for all the students in a school to attend the Christmas show with their parents.

    But saying "Merry Christmas" in a public institution or singing Christmas carols at a Christmas school show, is not establishing a religion. The atheists and ultra-liberals know this, but they attack Christmas anyway. They also attack the other part of the 1st Amendment when they want to prohibit people from celebrating Christmas in public, because by doing that they are prohibiting the free exercise of religion.

    The reason they attack Christmas is because they hate the One who is at the center of Christmas. Jesus Christ, the Man from Nazareth. And who happens to be God. They hate him, they hate his claims, his authority, and everything he stands for. It's not about the establishment of a religion. It's about their dislike of Christ.

    They don't attack any other religious holidays or public displays of Muslim or Hindu symbols.

    It reminds me of a line from the movie "Last Ounce of Courage". The Mayor of a small town said it to some arrogant idiots who were attacking him for putting up a Christmas tree on the steps of city hall.

    "If you're a Muslim, by all means go to the town square and pray to your god, it's your right. If you're Jewish, light up your menorah and celebrate Hanukah in public. But don't tell me, a Christian American and the majority of us who believe in Jesus Christ, that we can't celebrate his birth in public!"

    In a few more years, if the ACLU atheists and other ultra-liberals have their way, it will be illegal to say "Merry Christmas", except in your own home or in church.
     
  18. Diuretic

    Diuretic Well-Known Member

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    History.
     
  19. Wolverine

    Wolverine New Member Past Donor

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    Thanking Jesus for American freedom?

    What aspects of the Bible allow for freedom?

    Are you aware that the United States is actually the result of a moral abomination? (Romans 14:1-7).
     
  20. Questerr

    Questerr Well-Known Member

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    The Bible makes a claim and there is zero evidence to corroborate it. There is no evidence that the Jews were ever slaves in Egypt.
     

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