Harder Vic restrictions 'certainly expected'

Who said lockdown strategy is wonderful??? I would suggest the points are lost on you of what has been made as the point of 'looking at the whole picture' is self-reflective.

Yes there are huge damages economically from lockdown, nobody has refuted. However, the impacts of ignoring the virus simply to prop up those who demand others solve their problems for them is short sighted and rather blinkered.

Of course they are going to pay at the election booth, as they try to keep the normal existence of the populace reliant on the government to solve their every demand. Of course in a worldwide pandemic economies suffer and people die, no matter what they do, they cannot win. People complain they should stop the deaths, should protect the vulnerable and keep the cash cow spending to buy their vote. In the past it was not government that made Australia great, it was the people. Today, the people demand to suckle on the government teat because they want handouts as they are far too short sighted to see what is good for the community is good for the individual.

No, as previously stated, if you want to choose money over life, then don't pretend you’re empathetic. Obviously an inability to look to the future for the best of the people cannot occur if you’re too worried about your wallet. No, it is clear who cannot “see the picture” and would rather complain.

 

For those people on this thread & elsewhere who have been desperately hoping a spike in suicided will help them argue against lockdowns, bad news:

Now, there is nothing good about 466 suicides. That is terrible, but no more terrible tha nany other year. It is possible that the long economic tail of this situation may lead to some increase in suicides, but it isn't happening so far. Hopefully it never will.

https://www.coronerscourt.vic.gov.a...ides-under-covid-19-shows-new-coronial-report

 

I agree with this but we must understand the impacts of this and financial pressures in the cause for suicides will not become apparent for a while yet.

With that said, I believe these types of studies actually go forward to marginalise the seriousness of suicides. We still need to act in prevention of this issue, I just do not believe most people do not understand the reality of the issue of suicide so they use it to support their argument in ignoring other dangers.

 

Suicide is almost always a function of privilege. It has nothing to do with recessions, pandemics, poverty, or any other 'external' factor. Third Worlders living in slums don't kill themselves, they fight on.

 

No, Suicide is not “a function of privilege” in any way shape or form. And yes, you do have people living in Third world slums killing themselves.


Nothing to do with ‘external’ factors??? I would like to see you explain that one…


I would suggest you take a bit of time and talk to people about such things. Perhaps read some in-depth articles outline Causes of suicide and such. Perhaps then we could discuss ways and means of addressing the problem, not just pretending that it only exists in a privilege bubble, so the issue is simply a symptom of our success.

 

Wow that's cold BF... even for you

time's not your friend BF, Andrews today is the most hated man in Victoria... and it will only get worse

 

Yes, it really is. Suicide is less common outside of the First World. It's not unheard of obviously, but statistically, per capita etc, it just doesn't happen as often. So yes, it's linked to privilege .. especially where that privilege is within a culture of self-indulgence. Japan only gets a pass on that because their unusually high (for Asia) rate of suicide is very much tied to a long history of honourable death. It was never a mental health thing, it was a warrior thing. The undercurrent of those ancient mores is still a loud background noise.

As for reading up ... it was my line of work for years, so I'll pass on that. Suffice to say I'm pretty darned certain the vast majority of suicides are a result of internal problems. External events are much less likely to result in mental injury in an otherwise mentally well individual.

 

Statistically speaking... OMG. First of all, when comparing statistics around the world you have to take into consideration how the statistics are gathered. Then you have to ascertain that the cause of death is by own hand or other mitigating factors. When considering the own hand, you have to consider the way in which people take their lives. and Finally, you have ascertain that the same criteria is used across the board.

Oh and you also have to take into consideration that many nations do not keep accurate figures even after you correlate all that

But I will simplify it for you, IF you consider the causal effect of suicide throughout the world, Then you will begin to understand that privilege is irrelevant when discussing the issue. In fact, I was extremely patient, with my reply in fear of you feeling insulted but frankly your posts seem to demonstrate absolute ignorance of the issue.

I call BS on that, since you don’t appear to understand what suicide is

What is it??? External events or external factors, two totally different things were one only encompasses events; factors can be much including just they way somebody makes you feel (as for example). Sorry, again to me it appears your very ignorant of the issue and I speak from experience in the area.

Suicide, OR death at ones own hand, exists in all cultures, all nations and rich or poor. It is easy to say it is a symptom of society, or a result of privilege. Maybe you would like to suggest that it only exists esoterically in western society, but that belies the existence of suicide throughout the centuries of which many causes have been associated.

Again, I don’t wish to offend but frankly, I get offended on this subject when people try to marginalise it.

 

1) Cool. You go ahead with that idea.

2) External EVENTS/FACTORS .. it's all the same. Suicide in response to externals, is quite rare in a mentally healthy individual. Grief, torture, death of a child, prisoner of war, starvation .. people have endured the worst of things forever, without killing themselves. But a mentally unwell First Worlder might kill themselves over a job loss, or a pandemic lockdown.

3) It should be marginalised. The more air time you give it, the more you legitimise it. Our young people deserve better than to be encouraged to think such a response to temporary pain is valid. And no, I don't for one second think that feting introspection is in any way healthy for young people. No one needs to pander to their every passing feeling to survive. And survival is boring, hard, and often feels pointless .. but that's how nature and physics work. That's the nature of nature. Just don't send your kids out into the world expecting things to be enjoyable/fun/interesting at all times, and that if it isn't then something is wrong with THEM. Give them an invaluable and life-saving purpose beyond the self .. utility. Utility kicks in when personal satisfactions aren't happening. That's how people survive far worst horrors than a job loss or lockdown.

 

May I ask on what basis/ poll do you say that he is 'the most hated man in Victoria'?

 

You need to do more research into Japanese suicides.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-33362387

Hikikomori is the equivalent of DEPRESSION.

Lack of a STABLE income causes depression.

Depression is a primary cause of suicide.

 

The poll of public abuse he's currently receiving including the wave of oncoming lawsuits he's going to have to deal with

 

Yes I realise all that, but the RESPONSE is cultural. Noble death, rather than indignity and all that. It is (or was) literally a civic duty, to save the family/village etc from the humiliation of cowardice.

Depression isn't a discrete entity, meantime. It's not a virus. It's a learned response to challenge .. and in some cases it's so thoroughly learned that it needs only the slightest 'challenge' to kick up. There is no connection between external events and depression, not even the worst .. grief. Grief is something quite different, and not everyone who grieves is depressed.

 

1000 protestors in Melbourne today...but only the hot guy has his shirt ripped come on... not an accident
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...n-protesters-Melbourne-Freedom-Day-rally.html

 

I did…

Now you just appear to be squirming to find traction. External events are not the same as factors. As explained, factors can be as simply as how somebody or something makes them feel. In an event, something has to occur.

Also, you seem now to want to focus simply on existing mental health issues and disregard all other areas of the issue. As somebody has already pointed out, this shows clear lack of understanding of the issues. Those anywhere in the world with mental health issues are as likely to take their own life no matter their situation or nationality OR being "First Worlder".

OMG, that would have to be the stupidest thing I have ever heard.


Marginalising it, means making it normal, only a moron would consider that making suicide normal would not encourage suicide. Only a moron would suggest that normalising suicide would do anything to address the issues.


I am just gobsmacked, how a person would suggest they have any knowledge on the issue would think, just ignore the issue it goes away. Little something you might consider, there are many reason on this planet people commit suicide. I believe you are focused on one group who announce they are taking their life and proceed to pop too many pills or something of that nature. That is actually a small percentage of the group. Most you only find out about AFTER they have acted.

Again, I would suggest you do some study…

 

LOL, okay. I'll do some 'study'. I'll add it to the 7+ years I did earlier.

Here's the thing .. I'm not in the business anymore, so I can speak openly. Depression (and it's ugly pal, suicide) are a symptom of a self-indulgent, infantalised, entitled, fragile, people who have lost the ability to plod along like an animal, doing the work of survival day in and day out.

There is only one exception, and I'll make it clear so there's no confusion. That exception is legitimate (as in QUALIFIED via formal criteria) PTSD. Even then, depression isn't always a co-morbidity.

 

Really??? Are you trying to suggest that depression is the only driver of suicide??? Are you trying to suggest that depression only exists as an “internal factor” and has no external influence at all???

Oh, one more question, do you suggest that ONLY depressed people take their own life???

The only exception is PTSD??? I would suggest, you believe that only one group of people suffer from PTSD, would that be right???

As stated, it is clear you have very limited knowledge on the subject. You seem to want to ignore other factors such as harassment by peers, government AND even law enforcement. I guess in your utopia that does not exist because they are external factors. You also want to ignore the one pointed fact of suicide that is a loss of hope or lack of future not simply depression. This is not simply depression, although it can manifest into.

One would point out at this stage, that to somebody who is suffers depression, marginalising suicide actually promotes it in their eyes. In fact, normalising suicide actually takes the stigma away from taking ones own life.

ALL these factors exist in all areas of the world and are neither privilege nor a symptom of success. The fact is that Suicide is a serious issue around the world that needs addressing, not just pretending it does not exist or it is simply a symptom of society that you can ignore

 

Victoria is dead, at least it wasn't Covid that killed us... Chairman Dan got to us first.

 

And it's all a failure of the survival instinct. Depression is exactly that (except in the case of bonafide PTSD). Even the occasional depression associated with grief isn't healthy. Grief isn't depression, it's 'sadness', and a healthy process. Depression is an unhealthy response to sadness.

I don't want to get into it too much here, but after working with victims of the worst imaginable trauma .. and plonking that on top of a framework of received wisdom (let's call it the compromised wisdom that is the DSM), there's no doubt in my mind that depression is a learned response. It's an emotional tantrum, which becomes self-sustaining when it's not challenged and appears to reap benefits. Humans only do things when they pay off, and in our society - indulgent as it is - depression very often pays off. Not in ways the laity simplistically imagines, but in enumerable less obvious ways.

 

Ok this video will likely get pulled very quickly... we can't have someone speaking the truth about the Victorian economy... simply won't do.

Of special interest at around 2mins 37 seconds he talks about how the emergence of two Australias, public sector have grown by 22 000 more jobs since 14 March 2020, while private sector lost almost 700 000 jobs go Dan the Communist man



ok so I'll just add, you people realise there's some big problems coming right.... very big. You're going to see massive numbers of people in private sector homeless & struggling or struggling to make ends meet.... and government elite having no change in their lifestyle.....

 

Clearly, depression is not simply sadness, nobody said it was. PTSD does not manifest itself in depression, however it can be symptomatic.


BUT you have hit the nail on the head. Suicide is a failure of survival instinct except in the cases of considered greater good (arguably).

And now you fall off the wagon letting the wheels run free. Received wisdom???

Depression is NOT a learned response… However, since you clearly want to believe that depression is simply a ploy to garner some response, I am not sure how you expect that to play in PTSD. OR is that your considered belief as an exception???

BUT to your negative reinforcement you wish to claim Depression, apparently you are not actually clear on what depressions actually is. Sure you know the rhetoric, “ it isn’t just feeling sad” or “grief is not depression” but you actually don’t understand it at all. You say it must be challenged otherwise it takes hold. Sounds a bit like telling somebody “buck up and stop feeling sorry for yourself”.

I don’t know, how do you challenge a cancer patient who is just been told they have six months to live. I don’t know but I do expect they have some right to be depressed about their situation.

Now, not to get into it, other than your “compromised wisdom”( I find totally nauseating) Suicide is not the sole ownership of depression. And depression is not the predominant driver of suicide so I would suggest your learnt wisdom needs to learn a little bit wider before you go forth promoting suicide as simply a symptom of society.

 

this is in NSW... but Victoria will be no different... in fact probably worse
6190 applications for one dishwasher role': What it's like looking for work in 2020
https://www.abc.net.au/triplej/prog...asher-job-receives-6000-applications/12698720

 

He should come to Western Australia. I haven't seen anyone social distance in months, literally nobody wears masks, everything is open.

 

That doesn't jibe with the reality I'm seeing, at all. There's actually a huge amount of work out there for motivated kids. Many businesses are actually having trouble finding people.

Of course, this piece may be referring only to inner city areas .. so not really representative at all.