Has God cursed mankind?

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by Canell, Mar 13, 2022.

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Has God cursed mankind?

  1. Absolutely not

    10 vote(s)
    40.0%
  2. Perhaps not

    1 vote(s)
    4.0%
  3. Well, may be

    4 vote(s)
    16.0%
  4. Deffinetely

    4 vote(s)
    16.0%
  5. I don't know

    2 vote(s)
    8.0%
  6. I don't care

    3 vote(s)
    12.0%
  7. God didn't but Jesus did

    1 vote(s)
    4.0%
  1. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I responded to this .. and did not claim otherwise .. so why are you repeating this trope twice now .. while avoiding what was actually said
     
  2. Phil

    Phil Well-Known Member

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    I formalized a new proposition today.
    God created the Corona Virus to give the environment a chance to improve as we use less gas in cars and planes, saving many animals and trees (which he also loves).
    We deserve anything we get. They don't.
     
  3. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    I haven't seen this description of "blessed" before.

    I'll have to think about that!
     
  4. yabberefugee

    yabberefugee Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    We differ if you think Jesus was merely a philosopher. Everything about Him indicates He is God in the flesh. As CS Lewis said "He was either a liar, a lunatic, or He is Lord." There is no in between. So Jesus said some pretty pointed things about Himself and His purpose. So do you just write him off as a lunatic yet say some of the things He taught hold value?
     
  5. Imnotreallyhere

    Imnotreallyhere Well-Known Member Donor

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    First off, you need to understand I affirm the divine nature of Jesus.

    Secondly I think there is another path to Jesus's thought than Lewis posited. That is, that Jesus thought we were all God's children, that we all deserved the same consideration and respect as He did, that He was not unique. Seems to me he gave his life to save us from sinning against each other. We cannot truly harm God after all

    God made us. He loves us. We all have the divine spark.
     
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  6. yabberefugee

    yabberefugee Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    And I affirm every thing you said. You do understand my response was to Willreadmore and his comment? Jesus was and is "unique" in that We cannot obtain Salvation without Him. His merciful act was not just to keep us "from sinning against each other" but to cover our sin so that we could reside in His Holiness.
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2022
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  7. Buri

    Buri Well-Known Member

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    A benevolent god decided he hates his own creation? How thick do you have to be to think that makes any sense, or worse to idolize such an evil creature

    That's not science, that's pseudoscience.
     
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  8. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    An ontological dilemma .. but one different than the one being discussed in post. which is the problem of making defacto claims w/r to God .. the difference between "belief" / "faith" and absolute certainty - in particular when one is "Speaking for God" -- making claims on Gods behalf .. that sort of thing .. the sort of thing one often hears bandied about - not only in Religion/Philosophy but other sections.
     
  9. (original)late

    (original)late Well-Known Member

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    First of all, no, I have not cursed you.

    I thought about it, but I decided it would be better if I didn't believe in you.
     
  10. RoccoR

    RoccoR Well-Known Member Donor

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    RE: Has God Cursed Mankind?
    SUBTOPIC: What is the Supernatural and its Relationship to Pseudoscience?
    ⁜→ Buri, et al,

    (PREFACE)

    OH, I don't expect to change your mind. In fact, I am NOT sure that your view is not sound and valid (What premises are true and which is either on solid ground, or justifiable).

    IF you consider searching for "Electromagnetic Energy" in the Metaphysics to be Pseudoscience, THEN you must consider "String Theory" - "Spooky Action at a Distance" - the search for "Dark Energy and Dark Matter" to be Pseudoscience. It is all matter of perspective.

    (COMMENT)

    Pseudoscience has certain implications to it. When you tag it against Metaphysics, you are saying that each time turn on my SDR Frequency and Waterfall display in search of undefined energy, that is NOT science. I find your definition of science suspect. Granted, there are some aspects lumped in together with Metaphysics, and that happens when Metaphysics is the study of that which is beyond the evaluation of the natural laws of the universe, as we know them today.

    I am not trying to persuade you of anything. But what I am saying is that most people that slings those terms around can not tell you the difference between traditional Physics and Metaphysics.

    BTW: Religious Expeditions that are dispatched to investigate miracles, are evaluations in Metaphysics.
    [​IMG]
    Most Respectfully,
    R
     
  11. Buri

    Buri Well-Known Member

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    If you have to rewrite the definition of science to include pseudoscience, you may be doing it wrong.
     
  12. Imnotreallyhere

    Imnotreallyhere Well-Known Member Donor

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    I don't think that's necessarily the case. I don't think Christianity has a complete grasp on the nature of God. I don't think any single faith does. I believe that any faith will eventually lead to God. God loves us. He is omnipotent. He would not lead us astray nor would He permit us to be led away from Him.
     
  13. yabberefugee

    yabberefugee Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Then Christianity is not your bag. Jesus said "I am the way the truth and the life, no one comes to the Father but through me". Many times Jesus referenced to Himself as "I am". Any Rabbi at the time knew the significance of that. That is what got him crucified. He laid His life down for us only to take it up again and resume his place in heaven.
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2022
  14. yabberefugee

    yabberefugee Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I marvel at anyone that says this......
    And the says this.......
    No one has ever had "Divine Nature" except the "only begotten Son of God". There is only one. 12 disciples knew Him and conveyed to the rest of us we could partake of His Spirit and be one with Him. C.S. Lewis was right. There is no middle ground here. He claimed to be what He is.....the Alpha and Omega. "Liar, Lunatic, or Lord." Your choice.
     
  15. Imnotreallyhere

    Imnotreallyhere Well-Known Member Donor

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    Do you think you have a complete grasp of the mind of God? Without that understanding, how can you definitively state that your faith is the only one that results in redemption?

    If you do understand His mind and motives, explain how the crucifixion was anything other than a symbolic act, done to demonstrate His love for us. He had no need to atone for our sins as our sins are all against Him. In what way does His death pay our debt? We are forgiven because He says so, He had no need to die to make it happen. He is omnipotent and answerable to no one.

    I do not claim that Christianity is wrong, or even mistaken about anything outside of the institution's claim to knowledge of the sole truth. I think that claim was made for temporal purposes, and has been used (not only or always by the Church) to justify temporal ends.
     
  16. RoccoR

    RoccoR Well-Known Member Donor

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    RE: Has God Cursed Mankind?
    SUBTOPIC: "rewrite the definition of science"
    ⁜→ Buri, et al,

    (PREFACE)
    Heavens no! You do not have to incorporate "pseudoscience" into the definition of science. Science is the study of "x". The common aspect of most traditional sciences is the Methodology (the Scientific Processes).

    (COMMENT)
    Science - Key Terms.png

    SCIENTIFIC PRINCIPLE [biology, chemistry, mathematics, physics, etc] (Aristotle) Generally accepted in the relevant scientific community. Discovery crossing the line between the experimental and demonstrable stage. The evidential force of the principle must be recognized; the deduction is made to have gained general acceptance in the particular field in which it belongs.
    It is my opinion that none of the definitions need, for the topic under discussion, rewritten. Everything is covered.

    Just my two-cents worth,
    [​IMG]
    Most Respectfully,
    R
     
  17. Canell

    Canell Well-Known Member

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    So, Jesus (1/3 of Trinity) paid a ransom to the Father (another 1/3 of the Trinity) for us. That is God paid God for our sins that were a result of God's poor job creating a faulty man. Got it.
     
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  18. RoccoR

    RoccoR Well-Known Member Donor

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    RE: Has God cursed mankind?
    SUBTOPIC: Nature of God!
    ⁜→ mswan, WillReadmore, et al,

    I'm sorry for being late to this discussion. I had to think about this.

    (COMMENT)

    Scientific Method and Supernatural Belief are not dependent on the other.

    On any given topic, the notion under examination, can be evaluated from either perspective. There is really no sound and valid procedure to do a comparative analysis.

    ◈ Why is the sky blue?

    Science: The answer has to do with the O-Zone and the wavelengths (what is passed, absorbed, reflected).

    Religion: The answer is the Supreme Being made it that way.​

    Science (the math, physics, chemistry) cannot provide the proof that the Supreme Being (creator of the universe and the laws by which the universe operates); and Religion cannot provide proof that Science is wrong. They are not incompatible:
    • Both could be correct.
    • One could be correct and the other incorrect.
    • Both could be wrong.
    They are totally independent and not part of the determination of the other.

    Just My Thought,
    [​IMG]
    Most Respectfully,
    R
     
  19. David Landbrecht

    David Landbrecht Well-Known Member

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    This is precisely what contradicts Islam and demonstrates that the Koran is in error. Jesus cannot be a prophet.
    The great problem of Christianity (shared by other religions) is the overlay of myth, interpretation, political interests, dishonest representatives, etc.
    The concept of a supreme being, creator of all and everything, is beyond the comprehension of most people. Containing such a "One" in our small vocabularies is unthinkable. It is, in fact, blasphemy. It is, in fact, what all religions engage in. This obscures understanding profoundly. People cannot accept that they are incapable of understanding such a "god" and cling to tawdry semblances. Jesus represents a breakthrough. Remember that, despite his education and ability to write, he left no written works. That is one example of his message. What we have as testimony to his words reveals great simplicity and deep, subtle, penetrating truth. When we consider that in those statements he said that finding truth there is all that is necessary, we can be assured of all the rest he spoke of.
    One must seek, ask, knock and examine the results. Any belief based on other than that is only built upon hearsay.
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2022
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  20. (original)late

    (original)late Well-Known Member

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    Xtianity has a father, sons, angels, a devil and demons.

    It's the usual pantheon of gods you've seen a bunch of times before...

    One thing it is not is monotheism.

    That also underlies these discussions in places. The result is confusion, contradiction, and a vagueness that shows up in threads like this..
     
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  21. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Jesus was one man who tried to pull the rug out from under the one and only religion that was based on the God of the Bible at that time. And, he didn't do that in some remote location - he threw it right in their faces!

    I don't believe you need to go beyond that in finding a reason for antipathy.
     
  22. RoccoR

    RoccoR Well-Known Member Donor

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    RE: Has God cursed mankind?
    SUBTOPIC: Nature of God!
    ⁜→ WillReadmore, et al,
    (COMMENT)

    Well, I'm not sure that I agree with the description - that being "tried to pull the rug out from under the one and only religion that was based on the God of the Bible at that time."

    If I understand your meaning, the Old Testament cannot be expected to shed any true light on the subject, leaving the New Testament as one primary source.

    I also think that "the Bible" was contaminated and manipulated in the assembly. I do not think that I actually understood the actual mission or objective of Jesus Christ. We hear about the claims as to what he did, but not what he was supposed to do. You would have thought that both the Apostolic Church (alla the New Testament) and the Messianic perspectives would have made the reason clear.

    I think this is just one of many reasons I left the Church.

    [​IMG]
    Most Respectfully,
    R
     
  23. yabberefugee

    yabberefugee Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No way do I ever claim to have a complete grasp on the mind of God. Time is not a dimension to Him. He has dimensions I cannot even contemplate. He does give me knowledge because His Word is a Living Document. I read it and studied when I was 25. Read the whole thing. I am now 68. I read it and learn more. I learn from others far younger than myself who also have the Holy Spirit that was promised. I state that my faith is the only one because it declares the "nature of mankind", it's weaknesses, and how they can be overcome, and that Jesus is the Alpha (first) and Omega (last). Sometimes reflect on Phillipians 2: 1-11.

    Did you know Abraham took Isaac, his son, up to Mount Moriah as God told him to, to sacrifice him. Most all religions have practiced that without sacrifice, there is no remission of sin. Abraham was tested. As they built the alter, and gathered wood for the fire, Isaac asked him, where is the sacrifice? Abraham replied, "God will provide". Then a lamb suddenly appeared and was a substitution for Isaac. Now Golgotha, the place where Christ was crucified, many archeologists and theologians believe is the approximate location.
    Sure, God is omnipotent and answerable to no one. He has put limits on Himself as an act of love. He created everything. He is the author of real "Agape love". That "Love" desires a return of Love. If you read Phillipians like I suggested, you would understand what God did. He gave all of us a choice so we can return that love in kind.....we don't have to. God is Holy. Sin cannot be in His presence. That is why He came in the form of a man and dwelt among us. He made that sacrifice of His own Body so we could be reconciled to Him. It was a debt that had to be paid by nothing other than a "perfect, sinless sacrifice". When we understand this basic act, and what was done on our behalf believing, we are reconciled to Him now and for eternity. Crucifixion was a death perfected for centuries to inflict the most pain possible on a human being. No man could possibly endure that pain and at the same time ask His Father to forgive them yet Jesus the Man stayed true to His mission. When you study the whole story, and you determine it was all made up, you must declare him to be a liar, or a lunatic. I know of no other faith that comes close!
     
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  24. yabberefugee

    yabberefugee Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Well you can go on with your logic. You seem to think you understand the Trinity and the mind of God as evidenced by your sarcasm. In fact, why don't you just be a god?
     
  25. yabberefugee

    yabberefugee Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I love your explanation of "Faith" that those of us in the Body of Christ all hold dear!
     
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