Health care....Down Under

Who pays for your 24/7 on-call ambulance service? I don't mean after you have used the ambulance

 

There is plenty to pick apart when we are talking about nationalized healthcare or single payer but the argument of ‘free stuff’ simply doesn’t carry any weight. The assumption is that there is no free stuff today. Go spend a few months visiting ERs and find out how poor and uninsured pay for care, plenty of free loaders in our current healthcare system. Who bares the costs? The avg Joe paying private healthcare insurance and tax payers. So, as a matter of fact, plenty of free stuff today but it’s inefficient so why fight a more efficient system that gives some free stuff? The word free is a misnomer though, someone always pays.. it’s how we allocate the costs that matters.

 

Private health care would not survive without government subsidies (tax expenditure, training costs, auxiliary services etc ). It is a misnomer to say that private health care is efficient

 

It isn’t, neither is anything government run.. pick your poison.

I just think the argument of ‘free stuff’ should never be used as there is free stuff, lots of it, in a private healthcare system as-well

 

They must be talking about poor people who don't contribute to the healthcare pool. Yet when you see all poverty as something someone chooses, instead of actually understanding that not all of the poor actually choose it, well, you might be able to understand their mindset, on the free stuff. That their perception of the causes of poverty is always purely of personal choice is the problem. I can recall many poor people of my youth who worked hard from dawn to sunset, but given their lower IQs, the jobs they could do paid only a poverty level wage. We didn't blame the poor for their poverty back then, but this was prior to the rise of conservatism. That ideology gave us this free stuff paradigm, and it is quite popular today on right wing talk radio.

 

I have that?

 

Well, do you have private health care? And what do you do if you feel that you are having a heart attack?

 

Wouldn’t do that necessarily I work in the health system and I have private cover despite the fact that there is no private hospital where I work. I will go public this end. That is because public gets me a free flight to the nearest hospital which can provide the correct level of care. You can still go private then though. Often you will be transferred faster because you are more likely to have a bed available

 

Pray.

Don't laugh. It has worked fine so far.

 

Yea and no. I agree that the ‘free stuff’ argument is a non-starter as someone always pays for those who can’t. Democrats have been dumb when arguing against conservatives on this front. In fact, if i were a democrat, i would turn the tables on conseravtives and actually argue that the current system is unfair as there is too much ‘free’ stuff given to those who never pay into the system. It would be a smart tactic for democrats to argue this point and explain that at least under a single payer or nationalized system, more people may actually pay into the system (yeah dreaded taxes).

Where you veer off course is when you claim poor people are poor not because of their choosing. I would argue the vast majority are poor because of their choosing. Being born in poverty is not an excuse to be poor, plenty have been born poor and become rich. The problem is that yes, there are many lazy people, unprincipled people and many who once they taste welfare, get hooked and it makes matters worst. I see these people evrywhere, from some close family members that don’t even try to get a job (ultra liberal of course), to employees in businesses my friend owns who refuse to work the extra minute so they can collect welfare benefits, to the drug delear who opted to make the big bucks by being a criminal, to the wall street protestor that stops me as i make into work protesting that i’m a crook but all they do is whine because they are bums. Most of these people are not stupid, it’s the way they have chosen to live their lives.

Yes, there are some who are just simply dumb but even low IQ people can find decent paying jobs if they look hard enough, maybe they just prefer the welfare check vs doing manual labor? Now there are some who are really mentally challenged and we should help them but manh of those you see roaming the streets are not all mentally challenged, some are drunks.

The biggest problem is a decaying culture, if your parents teach you that preserverance, hard work and living with integrity is what counts, even the least privileged can succeed, even if they have a longer road to travel. This one thing conservatives get right - culture, strong parenting is what’s most important but liberals never focus on this.

 

Totally agree with all of the above.
But I am curious to know. How does a "strong conservative parent"
explain the person of Mr. Trump to his/her children?
It has to be difficult. No?

 

Certainly if you are comfortable with services that are a form of welfare, that would seem the logical thing to do.
I don't see why we need to take care for or provide for ourselves at all, when we can simply set up some tax that will provide everything we need....
Except of course, self-respect. Small price to pay-....?

 

Are trump’s children bums? Drug addicts? Alcholics? If there is something trump did well was teach his kids to not be lazy, work hard, avoid drugs, avoid alcohol and work hard.

Being rich is not why his kids are succesful at life, money helps but there are also many many lazy rich kids who turn to drugs, alcohol.. just look at liberal hollywood and all the examples of rich parents doing a horrible job raising their children, children who are drug addicts, alcoholics, lazy, even commit suicide. I personally know a friend who’s dad is a millionaire and he’s turned out to be useless, can’t even work in his dad’s business and has gotten into a ton of trouble. His parents gave him everything he wanted when he was a kid, even let him take private jet for a ride. Money doesn’t guarantee your kids will turn out ok;in fact, inheriting lots of money can be quite toxic to a child unless right value system is instilled early on.

Also, whilst trump himself is not the role model for conservatism, he has pushed a quite conservative agenda and been succesful at it, would conservatives rather have a good religious moral man who fails at actually executing a conservative agenda?

 

Thanks but that wasn't my question.
How does a "strong conservative parent"
explain the person of Mr. Trump to his/her children?
Couple days ago I read article about a kid from the east coast whose last name is actually Trump. (No relation to Donald)
He was being picked on so much at school that they had to change his name.
My kids are all grown now. But I can't imagine trying to explain the actions of Mr. Trump to them.
So how does a Conservative parent explain him to their children?

 

Please, the ones who are saying free stuff get their employer contributions written off and paid by taxpayers many of whom do not have insurance. So maybe if the tax deduction was taken away they would have to pay 2x more.
Employers pay 75% of healthcare with a 30% deduction. 12,000 X.3 is $3,600, there is no reason for 100% of taxpayers should pay for a benefit for only 50% of the citizens. I think they should have to pay the 3,600 and not ask tax payers to pay for thier benefit.

 

where did you say anything about free in his post? It quite clearly listed what it costs for coverage.

 

^ Holy crap yes thread win.

 

Next day If required

Aim for thirty days non emergency ninety days if it is routine I.e. post chemo

And unlike America we actually keep stats and work on improving them

 

Thanks. It’s common here for doctors to say come back in 3-4 weeks and we will start treatments. Drives me nuts.

 

No they are unindicted criminals
https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/10/29/suit-accuses-trump-and-his-eldest-children-with-fraud/

https://www.wnyc.org/story/trump-children-were-investigated-fraud-avoided-indictment/

The list goes on

 

Depends of course but a friend was just diagnosed. Had all the tests, I live rural and remote but he started treatment within the fortnight and they are tracking the size of the tumour before surgery. As I said though if it is required urgently you do not wait. Non urgent such as knee replacements can take a while.

 

I don't know.

 

Did you ever think of how much it cost the taxpayer for you getting clipped in the noggin with a golf ball? A slight concussion that can't really be fixed anyway. Your golfing buddies could have saved the taxpayers a ton of money (you aussies do pay a lot in taxes) by putting you in the shade and then playing all the way through to the 18th, and then explaining the human trap they left on the back 9 is only a temporary fixture.

Think of how much vegemite could have been purchased for poor aussies with all the money it cost to put you through the Oz version of a medical pork project.

 

Hope your friend is ok. I hate cancer. It’s killed most of my family.

I don’t know how long a wait here for knees exactly. Most people just put it off. Once they decide to do it it’s done soon. My uncle had both done and they did the second as soon as the first was healed. He used the VA though so they just depend on location. Some are good some stink.

Have to see rural and remote Australia some day. Such places are the only places I wish to visit anymore.

 

Hopefully you never have to find out. Cancer sucks.