Healthcare costs and the free market

Discussion in 'Health Care' started by ARDY, May 6, 2017.

  1. Vegas giants

    Vegas giants Banned

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    And yet none of them have split into other nations or would even think about it. They have NATIONAL programs
     
  2. Ethereal

    Ethereal Well-Known Member

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    I don't think you know what the word "theory" means because you keep applying it to my ideas as if it were somehow a bad thing.

    Anyway, it's not a "theory" that America experienced high economic growth and development before government welfare programs. It's based on publicly available data measuring the growth of GDP, productivity, and wages between 1790 and 1935.
     
  3. Vegas giants

    Vegas giants Banned

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    It is also not a theory that we became the MOST POWERFUL nation on earth AFTER 1935. Remember FDR? Why do you deny this?
     
  4. Ethereal

    Ethereal Well-Known Member

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    You're acting like those social programs just materialized spontaneously one day in the complete absence of any historical context. But there is 150 years of economic growth and development that preceded them.
     
  5. Vegas giants

    Vegas giants Banned

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    Why did we not become a failure as a nation when we adopted all those social programs? Face it we THRIVED when we developed them
     
  6. Ethereal

    Ethereal Well-Known Member

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    I don't know why you're so concerned with power when I'm trying to talk about prosperity. And I don't deny that the USA became a powerful empire after FDR. I'm simply drawing your attention to the 150 years of growth and development on which that wealth and power rested.
     
  7. Vegas giants

    Vegas giants Banned

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    But we also became the most prosperous AFTER social programs
     
  8. Ethereal

    Ethereal Well-Known Member

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    America has always thrived though. And the reason we did not become a failure is because we had a robust market economy to financially sustain those programs. Without such a market, there'd be little or no money to fund them.
     
  9. Vegas giants

    Vegas giants Banned

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    You are making my case. We can have it both AND be the most prosperous nation on earth
     
  10. Ethereal

    Ethereal Well-Known Member

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    WE also became the most prosperous AFTER the advent of telephones, automobiles, planes, and industrial fertilizers. But none of them would have been possible without a robust market economy to sustain them.
     
  11. Vegas giants

    Vegas giants Banned

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    That is why I am glad we have a MIX of BOTH capitalism and socialism. This is getting boring
     
  12. Ethereal

    Ethereal Well-Known Member

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    Your case was that America became prosperous because of social welfare programs. But America was prosperous long before those programs ever existed. So, no, I'm not making your case, I'm actually bringing it into serious doubt.
     
  13. Vegas giants

    Vegas giants Banned

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    We were NOT the most prosperous nation UNTIL we had social programs. Boring
     
  14. Ethereal

    Ethereal Well-Known Member

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    Then leave. I'm not here to entertain you.

    Anyway, your original argument was that libertarian ideology has never worked, yet capitalism is based on libertarian principles. Clearly, then, your argument is fallacious on some level.
     
  15. Vegas giants

    Vegas giants Banned

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    Same ground over and over
     
  16. Ethereal

    Ethereal Well-Known Member

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    That isn't even true. America has had robust economic growth and development since the very beginning. It's always been this prosperous. But even if we assume that America's prosperity is a recent development, it has far more to do with the advancement of technology and its commercialization than with social programs. Or do you actually expect people to believe that our prosperity would be possible in the absence of phones, computers, automobiles, planes, etc.?
     
  17. Ethereal

    Ethereal Well-Known Member

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    Bye Felicia.
     
  18. Vegas giants

    Vegas giants Banned

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    Goodnight sweetheart!
     
  19. HonestJoe

    HonestJoe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I give up! I can't be doing with this stupid multiple-posting you're doing combined with a refusal to discuss fundamental details to your proposal or acknowledge basic facts. I'll leave you to your fantasy world and get back to dealing with the practical realities in this field.
     
  20. james M

    james M Banned

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    1) you are giving up because all your questions about how capitalism works have been easily answered
    2) if you can show a "fundamental detail" I have refused to discuss I will you $10,000. Bet?
    3) if you can show a "basic fact" I have refused to acknowledge I will pay you $10,000. Bet?
     
  21. HonestJoe

    HonestJoe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    1) Your idea has nothing to do with capitalism or free markets, It's just about government funding of personal healthcare. You've said nothing about how the market side would change beyond your still unsupported prediction of prices falling by 80%.
    2) What happens when someone uses up their $10,000 in the middle of a course of treatment.
    3) That your plan would involve a significant increase in government spending.

    Please donate my $20,000 to the charity of your choice. :)
     
  22. james M

    james M Banned

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    wrong wrong wrong I said in transition to full capitalism govt initially sends voucher for $10,000 to each person; when price drops taxes drop and people begin to fund their own health care projected to cost $2500 a year.
     
  23. james M

    james M Banned

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    when people are shopping with their own money or what can become their own money[ voucher convertible to cash if not spent by year end] you have injected a major element of capitalism into system. When prices are published and providers are competing for your business on basis of price and quality you have introduced another very major element of capitalism.
     
  24. james M

    james M Banned

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    I've said 6 times market side would change when people would be shopping with their own money. They don't do that now. If they don't do it now it would be a change. Do you understand what change means?

    prices would fall 80%. This is what we see in side by side comparisons. Did you ever hear of East/West Germany? To buy a car totally unreliable car in East Germany cost you 10 years pay, to buy a reliable car in West Germany cost you 1 years pay. People could buy far far more in West Germany thanks to Republican capitalism which made prices 80% lower. Is this simple enough?

     
  25. james M

    james M Banned

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    govt pays I've told you 4 times; before shall we go for 6??
     

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