Healthcare False Narrative - let the free market fix it !

The idea that there will be some kind of free market in Healthcare with meaningful competition is a false narrative.

The whole healthcare system has been full of Oligopolies and things are not likely to change under Trump. The Drug Oligopolies fix prices. Some were so obvious about it that charges were laid. The fines that resulted from these convictions were fractions of a rounding error on the profit that was made over years of price fixing. - not exactly a deterrent.

Monopolism and anti competitive practices are rampant throughout the industry.

Insurance companies ? - humor, these are some of the worst for collusion. The idea of a free market in medical insurance is laughable. In any case, the whole medical insurance scam is just more money on top of a system that is already more expensive than any other first world nation.

Then you have the medical college which artificially restricts the numbers of entrance to keep the supply of doctors and specialists low (thus increasing the demand/price)

Why on earth would we not just go with a Gov't system with the option of private. This would be so much cheaper.

 

We were there already - pre-ObamaCare, and were facing a rising premium crisis, people being dropped and too many who were denied or couldn't afford insurance. Why would going backward help?

Because the insurance companies have lobbyists, and the GOP is determined to prove the government can do no good.

 

It's not like we don't have a of what Healthcare insurance was like without the ACA.

It wasn't that long ago and it was a disaster

 

I am not a big fan of the massively bloated Gov't run bureaucratic healthcare nightmares in other first world countries.

That said - they are all cheaper than our system and they all have universal healthcare. So - even with thee massively bloated bureaucracies they are still cost less - and the people get more.

 

Just like in most of the major product markets, healthcare related manufacturers and providers and all of their parent companies, investment funds, etc etc have all become entirely too large for an actual free market economy to exist. And even if it did, the "market" doesn't do anything. As much as people like to speak of it like it's some kind of presence with intent and responsibility, it's really not. This is why I cringe every time I hear somebody saying "the market will sort it out" or even worse, "the market will regulate things". That's like saying "The tooth fairy will make sure your teeth don't rot".

The "market" is sort of like the static snow on your TV set. It's just the combination of a bunch of different things all happening at once. All that static on your TV is made of up signals from a multitude of different sources, even including the leftover radiation from the Big Bang. The "market" is made up of a multitude of different transactions all happening at once, but just as unguided as the static on your TV. It's just a seemingly countless amount of people trying to make a buck. It's not a "force" and certainly not one with the ability to make itself better. Nobody ever trusted the snow on their TV set to give them a clearer picture and better show content. That's because the snow doesn't do anything, it's just a snapshot of a whole bunch of simultaneous signals, and taken together gives us the thing we know as TV static snow. Likewise with the market, each transaction is not part of a larger whole that is guided or aware. They are just individual transactions that are generally done to benefit one or more of the parties involved in it. All the market reflects is how people are exchanging money, resources, and/or services.

 

What, if anything, would be wrong with Federal mandated and controlled car insurance then? God knows that there are thousands of uninsured drivers causing mayhem.

 

Just the fact that the healthcare insurance cartel can create "networks" of medical providers and refuse to pay those outside their "network" makes a complete and utter farce of the concept of a "free market" for health care.

 

Everything you say is true. The insurance industry acts as the bankers of the US health care system. It has no incentive whatsoever to manage costs. A system where the people who use the product don't, by and large, write the check that pays for it inherently lacks any fiscal discipline. Insurers, as well as all the other players in the system, have every incentive to keep passing on additional costs and inefficiencies to their customers.

Health care is an inelastic commodity, and the people who run the system know it. No one gets three prices before having their appendix out.

The US is the only first world country that still has a privately financed health care industry. The only thing we have to show for it is the highest per capita costs in the world.

 

Health care being an inelastic commodity is also the same reason "one size fits all" doesn't work, and that instead it should be segmented into groups so that costs are cheaper and that you can effectively cover more people that way. Increased demand with an inelastic product will always resort in increased prices, whether or not the government has UHC or not.

We can either control price increases, or we'll have to accept higher taxes to pay for the price increases. I'm on the boat of controlling the price increases as a much more economically sane, better for everyone than the misguided dream of taxing us all to death for the insurance industry.

 

Free market healthcare would be fine if peoples emotions didn't get in the way..
Everybody always trying to save everybody else because they feels..

Healthcare prices would drop to rock bottom quick if those that couldn't afford it didn't use it because doctors would be out of jobs with no business, but then people that couldn't afford it would just die..

It's a balance of compassion with skyrocketing prices, or stone cold capitalism and people dying and doctors going bankrupt until it leveled out and then only the very poor just die..

 

Before the ACA about 45,000 people were dying every year because they could not afford healthcare and the Republicans wanted that system to remain in place forever.

Back then the Republicans claimed to be the party of "family values" and to hold the "high moral ground" so I would ask them this question;

How can you justify making a profit out of a sick child and thereby bankrupting the family? Where is the morality in that happening?

And yes, back then medical bills were the #1 cause of bankruptcies in America which was playing havoc with bank interest rates on credit cards. Even "stone cold capitalism" was paying a heavy price in debt defaults for having a "free market" healthcare system where those who couldn't afford it were left to die.

 

45,000 is a small number...

Kinda puts darwin into practice nicely..

Now we have bass akwards darwin with the intelligent not reproducing and the less intelligent like bunnies because of all this free stuff safety net..

 

So your justification for allowing your fellow Americans who are less fortunate than yourself to suffer and die is survival of the fittest?

That says volumes!

 

Medical colleges don't artificially restrict numbers of entrants. We have slots that go unfilled because medical education and books costs 10 times MORE in the US than other countries.

My foreign medical graduates passed the ECFMG exam with flying colors AND had to prove their proficiency in English to get into as US residency. Imagine my shock when I learned that they use to same medical textbooks a we do in the US.. except they are in softcover and cost $50 instead of $250.

 

There is no such thing as "free market healthcare".. Grandpa doesn't shop around for a pacemaker or wait until they go on sale.

I can expand that for you if necessary, but the fact of the matter is that you don't go to the hospital and order from a menu of services..

YOU are not the customer. Your attending physician is the customer. He/she orders all the tests, x-rays, procedures and medication.

 

Thanks, but no thanks. I'll stick with hoping the government gets out of the healthcare biz altogether.

 

Your point???

 

Agreed completely. The free market has been tried. As a result, we have the most expensive healthcare in the world. The companies had their chance. I agree it should be regulated.

 

You still don't know what free market healthcare means.. There is no such thing... never was.

 

The AMA DISCOURAGES competition for fear it may limit profit. It is a monopolistic union which presents the medical sector as a unified conglomerate, and our health and EVEN OUR LIVES are used as bargaining chips. WE NEED REGULATION TO OVERRIDE THIS REGULATION!!!

It would be naïve to believe that the medical sector pays ANY attention to market trends, other than the value that we place on our own health and lives. . . . Rapidly escalating healthcare pricings are arbitrary increases that are driven more by the profit motive than the need to cover providers' costs.

 

Good grief, man.. The AMA isn't important. Most doctors don't belong or pay dues to the AMA.

 

Before the ACA, people without health insurance went to charity hospitas for treatment. After the ACA, people without funds to meet their ridiculous deductibles or premiums went to charity hospitals for treatment. Charity hospitals are funded by private donations AND property taxes.

Contrary to earlier claims, NOBODY in this country has ever died from lack of health insurance (unless 45,000 people were too stupid to seek help). If big brother wants to help, they should concentrate on reining in prices of drugs and treatment.

Government has no business mandating health insurance. They already mandate county hospitals. Enough is enough.

 

When does the Federal Government quit? Everyone, who drives, needs affordable auto insurance also. Nothing like being hit by an uninsured driver.

 

How many charity hospitals are there? Enough to cover 20 million people?

I know of none in my area

 

Nope..........