Here's the collusion

Discussion in 'Latest US & World News' started by Doug_yvr, Jan 8, 2019.

  1. ToddWB

    ToddWB Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Remember for demonrats it's "Not Nature of Evidence, Seriousness of the Charge"
     
  2. ToddWB

    ToddWB Well-Known Member Past Donor

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  3. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Donor

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    Back to this Uranium One nonsense and the conspiracy theory that law enforcement is covering it up, eh. Silly me for responding. Can't ever seem to discuss MAGA's Russian collusion without someone piping right up with this crap.
     
  4. Nemesis

    Nemesis Well-Known Member

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  5. One Mind

    One Mind Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Well, I am a fair fellow, given I am neither a dem nor repub these days. And what you said is observable reality, and yet, the GOP side is not immune to such behavior and tactics. I watched as the right side team called obama names, claimed he was a socialist who wanted to turn america into another cuba, when in reality, judging by his actions, he was just another banking and big corporate stooge, serving that small group of elites, and he served them very well! His admin did not do what would have been done in earlier times and went after and prosecuted the big banker types on behalf of the People, given the crimes committed that had much to do with the crash of 08, which was financially driven, with unacceptable loans being made to people who in sane times, would have never been loaned money. Eric Holder who came to us, from basically wall street, was the perfect person to make AG. When the big bankers got into trouble, laundering drug cartel money, billions, he did not go after them the way we would have done in the past, but basically is on record saying they were just too big to jail, and got away with just paying some fines but were not sent to prison.

    And so, if this looks like socialism to you, instead of protected toxic capitalism, protecting the big capitalist elites, I am not sure that could be defended rationally, using facts. Obama was another president who worked for the current capitalistic model, a particularly destructive form of it, that if history rhymes, will eventually create a real deal drive towards genuine socialism, when the economic suffering created by this form of capitalism, that primarily only serves a few at the top, is no longer sustainable.
     
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  6. Reasonablerob

    Reasonablerob Well-Known Member

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    Hilary Clinton allowed the sale of Uranium One to Russia whilst they contributed millions of dollars to her foundation, not in the least for Bill's speaking tours. Don't get me wrong, I'm no "Lock her up" idiot but if Flynn, Trump etc has a case to answer then so does she.
     
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  7. ToddWB

    ToddWB Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I agree with most of this.. just that the term "toxic capitalism" needs defining.. I'd say it is "cronyism" and certainly both sides are guilty
     
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  8. ronv

    ronv Well-Known Member

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    Speaking of Trump's family, the House is about to call Jr. back in for one last chance to come clean.
    It's decision time. Stick to the story and win an indictment or tell the truth.
     
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  9. One Mind

    One Mind Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Regardless of what adjective one uses to describe it, the reality of it does not change. Perhaps "toxic" is not the best term to use, no argument from me in regards to that.

    Cronyism probably is a better term, and no disagreement there. I am not wedded to terms used. And yet from the perspective of the average working american, this form of it, seems to be rather toxic, at least for those people.

    I look at the whatever economic model is used by a nation, and if it serves the optimum number of citizens, or if it does not do that. This neoliberal, lack of illegal immigration control as well as its other aspect, economic globalism(simply a scheme to max out elite profits by being able to exploit the poor in foreign nations) does not optimally serve a nation and her people, but serves the maximization of profit for the top few, along with stealing away the national sovereignty of a People(in the interest of max profits). This form of capitalism actually weakens a People, a nation, not only economically, but it creates social problems that are very expensive, as well as destructive. It is therefore utter idiocy, and irresponsible. But the drive to max profits at any and all costs, is in itself irresponsible behavior and is never the principle that should be worshipped as the establishment does today. We have corrupted very important priorities, and if you want to take into account all of the things that put trump into office, you best not leave this one out.

    Economic globalism, a scheme to create greater disparity in income and wealth, works hand in hand with allowing the kind of illegal immigration we have allowed that provides cheaper labor for business and acts as a supressor of american working people wages, in the interest of profits for those in the owner class or the few at the top who make their living, who make their income by investing. And nothing wrong with earning an income by investing, what is wrong is how the current neoliberal driven capitalism is structured, a structure which benefits mostly those at the top, while causing destruction of our middle class and the ability of working americans to support themselves by honest labor.
     
  10. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Donor

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    It's sad just how Watergate-like it has become, and with a hostile foreign power in the mix to make it that much worse this time around.
     
  11. wyly

    wyly Well-Known Member

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    :roflol:you may want to invest in a dictionary...the definition of collusion is-"secret or illegal cooperation or conspiracy, especially in order to cheat or deceive others."


    Conspiracy against the United States, or conspiracy to defraud the United States,[26] is a federal offense in the United States of America under 18 U.S.C. § 371. The crime is that of two or more persons who conspire to commit an offense against the United States, or to defraud the United States.
     
  12. One Mind

    One Mind Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I think the truth is damaging for most people who are rich, when it comes to how they created their own wealth. I also think if you subjected all of our rich elites to what trump and his family have seen, we would be locking so many people us, that it would shock the system, financially. This idea was employed by Holder when he decided not to go after and jail those drug laundering bankers, who in the past would have been inhabiting a jail cell today. ha ha.

    I know the trump haters are still hoping that a conspiracy between putin and trump will be revealed, for they convinced themselves that the only way hillary could have been beaten is by some great conspiracy involving trump and putin. But they have been convinced, 90 percent of them, since trump beat hillary in 2016. Given this, and the fact they had zero evidence on which to base such a belief, it is telling as to how effective their brains operate, and to any rational person, of course, would make them very suspect as owning the mental facilities to determine much of anything. ha ha

    This means of course, that even if there is never the evidence to support their conclusions, that will have zero effect upon what their minds believe. And when the lack of fact and evidence would rationally destroy such beliefs, but does not, well, at least this indicates that the democrat mind is useless as teats on a boar hog. And it should alarm the people who are honest in intellect and rational beings, for these people represent a voting block that chooses our leaders. It would cause a loss of sleep, with some of us, those who are responsible, serious people.

    Frankly, being once upon a time a member of the DP, this deal both saddens me as well as being alarming. As I would have been alarmed if I spent much of my life as a member of the GOP, and paid attention as to what the reality is when it comes to the GOP, and who they represent in DC, which has seldom been working americans. And so the Princeton Study simple reaffirmed by perception not only of the GOP but also the now defunct party of FDR and the Common Man.
     
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  13. ronv

    ronv Well-Known Member

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    I really don't care how rich you are, but when you look me in the eye and lie to me, it pi$$es me off.
     
  14. One Mind

    One Mind Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    And that is why I have so little respect for your general politician at the federal level. And I would be much more pissed off against trump is he was doing something that I had come come to expect from those we send to DC to represent our best interests.

    Trump's many lies bother me, but no more so than the lies I have heard spanning 76 years of life as an american citizen. Lying is so common, while telling the truth is the exception rather than the rule when it comes to DC.

    But what I have noticed, is that many of trump's lies, are called lies when he gets stats wrong. And then there is the hyperbole, MSM calls lies, when he is massaging his own self image, his own blown up ego. On the other hand, the lie that went beyond the normal lies of a politician, was when obama in trying to sell the ACA, told us, that with ACA, if you liked your doctor, you can keep him, under this plan, when if he was familiar with that plan, he already knew that was a false claim, a lie. And this, unlike many of trump's lies, had direct consequences upon the american people, who were not able to keep their doctors. Just as the lies of the bush admin when it came to iraq and that invasion had dire consequences, lost lives, maimed our soldiers, and at the end of the day, when you include afghanistan, will cost trillions of dollars that in part will have to be borrowed, adding the the greatest national debt ever seen by any nation and such debt cannot be seen as a good thing, at all.

    It would be one thing if the trump hating crowd had some moral high ground on which they stood when it came to lies, coming from politicians. That they did not continue to support and vote for lying democrats, or republs for that matter. But when our own culture had accepted the truth involved in that old saying, "if a politician's mouth is moving, he is telling a lie" and then to act as if somehow trump was an anomaly instead of what has been normal for years. If one has to dive to the depths of hypocrisy as the dems have done, in order to make a claim, as they do against trump, then something is badly wrong with that picture. And so, why should I be so upset with trump, when lying is so common when it comes to our politicians? Should I try to hold him to higher standards than I would hold my own party to, if I were a democrat? No, for there is deceit and dishonestly involved in that and it is no different than some dirty bum, raising hell about how another bum is dirty. While intimating that being clean, he has the justification in pointing out the speck in another's eye, while there is a log sticking out of his own eye?

    Granted, it is a bad thing when any politician lies to the american people. And it should be pointed out, but only if you spend your time, as energetically, pointing out the lies coming from the people in your own party. If you only do it, on those you hate, or to your opposition, such people are no better in the truth department than trump, the person that is under attack for his lies.

    So, are the dems really concerned about lies, coming from trump? Concerned about lies coming from politicians? Of course not. They are only concerned with deceit and lies, when they can try to use that against the person that they hate, against the opposition. And this has relevance, is relevant, for it tells as much about his haters as how wrong and bad it is to lie to the People, as a politician. I think this has to be pointed out, for it says something about the sincerity of people, and if they can even be honesty relevant, showing themselves to be responsible people. Not to mention, people of integrity and honesty.

    I do think trump has lied more than other presidents, and other politicians, and it would be much worse, if only the average politician, yes even dems, were above that. And it would be much worse if his lies took us to war, and lost american lives, got people killed, over one of his lies. So, the quality of lie is very important, where the rubber meets the road.

    Filter out his lies in regards to getting stats wrong, and filter out his ego driven lies, to make himself look better than he actually is, and what is left is what he should be judged on, when it comes to lying. And I don't think he has met the standard set by other presidents and politicians, when it comes to consequential lies. He isn't even close to matching them, IMO.
     
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  15. ronv

    ronv Well-Known Member

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    His lies are a national disgrace and a sad joke.
     
  16. Reasonablerob

    Reasonablerob Well-Known Member

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    Bill Clinton's?
     
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  17. ToddWB

    ToddWB Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That doesn't require a question mark
     
  18. Antiduopolist

    Antiduopolist Well-Known Member

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    Not by Trump, correct. Stewart is an actual criminal sociopath.

    And the hypocrisy in ignoring MASSIVE Clinton corruption while pimping nothing burgers around Trump... :disbelief:
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2019
  19. Antiduopolist

    Antiduopolist Well-Known Member

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    Complete nonsense.
     
  20. Antiduopolist

    Antiduopolist Well-Known Member

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    ^ Surreal irony.
     
  21. Antiduopolist

    Antiduopolist Well-Known Member

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  22. Antiduopolist

    Antiduopolist Well-Known Member

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    ^ This.
     
  23. Antiduopolist

    Antiduopolist Well-Known Member

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    Burn the witch!!!
     
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  24. Antiduopolist

    Antiduopolist Well-Known Member

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    Complete nonsense.
     
  25. Antiduopolist

    Antiduopolist Well-Known Member

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    Naw.
     

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