Hi, I'm Vietnamese. Let's dive to political!

Discussion in 'New Member Introductions' started by thundercracker, Jan 9, 2013.

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  1. thundercracker

    thundercracker New Member

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    Vietnam had a dictator.

    Dictator, Communism, Democracy or something is no problem, it just a name. The matter still the people of this contry especially the goverment. If i am bad, I can hide in the umbrela of Democracy.Communism is now diffirent but the people is still!.

    You can understand the collapse of communism in USSR is the subsidies, rush to win the Capitalism, no reflex with reflex with huge change of modern,...(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolutions_of_1989)

    Those thing is on my country now. I'm very concerns with the working style of CPV, nearly the same with USSR before.

    I have experienced with the working style of some groups from US, Japan, Germany.... and i think Vietnam should learn more from Capitalism. You working in group very good, seriously.

    About goods, We need diversity, not more goods also the quality of services
    Unfortunately, China import smuggled goods to my country( some poor Vietnamese take those). Those goods is also not allow to product by China.

    PS: I noticed that you have the writing style is the same with Vietnamese. Do you have any connection with Vietnam?
     
  2. RPA1

    RPA1 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Why are not other parties allowed? It is illegal?

    With only 1 party, what is the difference between candidates?

    Can citizens suggest new laws through their representatives?

    Who decides the government didn't do something well?

    Do you have something like a Constitution that limits government power and gives rights to the people?

    In America, the Office of the President is the 'greatest' the person in the office must live up to the office or risk not being re-elected for a 2nd term. In America we revere George Washington (our first popular President) but even President Washington was subject to the Constitution. Our Constitution is meant to protect We The People from government tyranny by limiting its power and not granting full power to any government element. The Executive branch (President), the Legislative branch, (Congress) and the Judicial branch (federal courts including the Supreme Court) each have limited power which is meant to 'check' government overreach. Our Founders realized that government, if left to 1 element, will always become tyrannical. The system is not perfect however, it has been quite successful.
     
  3. thundercracker

    thundercracker New Member

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    Sorry because i can't reply with multi-quote!
    1/ Why are not other parties allowed? It is illegal?

    Because history made it the only one.
    When all country is in danger of invander in 19th century, CPV is the only party that defeat them, bring back freedom, education, independent….. In original, Marxism–Leninism building a social rejects political pluralism external to communism, claiming that the proletariat need a single, able and unifying political party through which to represent themselves and exercise political leadership
    I think Marxism-Lenism is perfect for country like us in 19th. History need a person to continue building this like Lenin did it after Karl Marx, Friedrich Engels.

    2/ With only 1 party, what is the difference between candidates?
    As I said, candidates who meet, understand, fight for citizen’s rights is the potential one( like Obama, Romney did it before)
    The matter not choose who cut tax for middle class, low down the number of solider in Middle East,…because Vietnam don’t have that.
    The policy is always “take from the rich to the poor” so we can balance the social in macro.
    Eg: You see a Vienamese drive a Lambroghini, Ducati or some thing like this. He did pay 3 times as American did. 60% the mount is for Treasury.

    3/Can citizens suggest new laws through their representatives?
    You can’t “suggest” to goverment like this, especially through representatives.
    You just can can suggest to amend it!

    4/Who decides the government didn't do something well?
    Of couse, Goverment have Initial Inspection, separated Supreme People's Court to judge who did thing wrong!

    5/ Do you have something like a Constitution that limits government power and gives rights to the people?
    Of couse we have Constitution.
    If necessary, Congress take a meeting public. The Constitution will be amend if 2/3 members of Congress agree!
    Not like America, Constitution, law is applied for all province, city.
     
  4. wyly

    wyly Well-Known Member

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    aggressors? seriously what sort of twisted history do they teach you in school? Vietnam was occupied by french colonial forces with US backing, this was a revolutionary war of independence, the occupied cannot be defined as aggressors.

    It's very ironic considering your own identical revolutionary war history with a colonial occupier.
     
  5. RPA1

    RPA1 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The entire country of Vietnam came under French rule 1869-1885 aided by Catholic militias. A Western society was developed and a modern education system. During WWII the Vichy Regime (Nazi Germany sympathizers) forced a French surrender. Japan raped the country of its resources and caused a famine in 1945. The Viet Minh, a Communist nationalist movement, headed by Marxist-Leninist Ho Chi Minh in 1945 (after the defeat of Japan) Ho Chi Minh and the Viet Minh declared a provisional gov't.

    The French attempted to TAKE BACK the country but was unsuccessful and Ho Chi Minh was able to negotiate a ceasefire. In 1954, the French and Communist forces were separated at the 17th parallel. After that, in 1956, Diem proclaimed himself President of the Republic of Vietnam. The North in Hanoi began a guerrilla campaign to overthrow Diem. They launched a 'land reform' campaign against wealthy farmers and exterminated 50,000 to 172,000. In the South, Diem was executing and imprisoning tens of thousands. Diem was assassinated in 1963.

    The South became weak and the U.S. began to support the South's struggle against communist insurgency.

    Your post is either grossly ignorant or the result of mind-numbed, liberal, Marxist propaganda.
     
  6. wyly

    wyly Well-Known Member

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    LOL historical revision of epic proportions..." The French attempted to TAKE BACK the country" how does one take back something that it does not own? the french were practicing a policy blatant imperialism no different than the Nazi conquest of Europe...

    South Vietnam was under french control only because the Viet minh had not yet liberated the south, Diem fraudulently had himself elected President with a rigged election then refused to allow a national referendum as agreed to in the 1954 Geneva Accords to unify the country. The US interference in the democratic procedure of another country and it's puppet government resulted in a death toll estimated between 1,000,000-4,000,000...and for what? economic policy? wasn't that the same reason the american colonies revolted against the British crown?...the US promoted a needless imperialistic war it could not win and the inevitable unification of Vietnam that could not be prevented...
     
  7. RPA1

    RPA1 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    .

    You parse my post and completely ignore the rest of the history. I would say YOU are the one with the 'epic' revisionist propaganda.

    Vietnam was under French control for 60 years until NAZI forces caused a French surrender. Then Japan raped Vietnam of its resources. After the defeat of Japan, Communists moved in (Marxist-Leninist Ho-Chi-Minh). I don't call a Communist take-over 'liberation' but then I am not a sycophant Marxist, socialist either.

    At which time Diem lost US backing.

    America sent a Military Assistance Advisory Group to train the Army of the Republic of Vietnam in 1955. By 1956 French troops leave. During 1954 to 1956 450,000 Vietnamese civilians FLEE the Viet Minh administration and relocate in S. Vietnam because of Communist opression. (Remember Communists didn't 'own' Vietnam either)

    The U.S. would have never taken over Vietnam but, the country became a battlefield because of the Communist aggression backed by both Russia and China that was threatening to take over.....It was NEVER about America taking over Vietnam. The only imperialism was that of the Communist regimes bent on forcefully taking over the country.
     
  8. wyly

    wyly Well-Known Member

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    ha! amazing how you contort yourself to justify american imperialism...your hypocrisy is incredible, americans can revolt for economic reasons but no other country is allowed that same choice?

    Communists moved in LOL, hardly how do indigenous people move into their own country, seems to me they were already there, the political leanings of a population is their choice not that of a foreign imperialist...


    at which time? the fraudulent election was in 1955, Diem was in power with US backing from 1954 until 1963, for 9 years the USA was happy to support their puppet tyrant...until the CIA found someone more compliant and removed him...


    those communists are Vietnamese they had every right to be there, the USA had no right to be there at all and no right to interfere in the political process.

    communist aggression is that like democrat or republican aggression? what right does the US have to interfere in the political choices of another country? The US promoted a civil war that need never have happened.

    A US puppet government refused the 1954 Geneva Accords which would have peacefully resolved the issue, an accord which the USA agreed to but then rejected when it realized it's puppet Diem would lose the election to the communists.
    US rejection of democratic procedure resulted in the needless death of millions. And for what? Vietnam is untied and millions died for nothing.
     
  9. RPA1

    RPA1 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No one said that.

    Since when are Chinese Communists indigenous to the people of Vietnam? Unfortunately, with territory grabbing Communist forces, the 'political leanings of a population' make no difference at all.


    Talk about revisionist history! LOL...That is the 'tin-hat' variety as well....


    The French were there for 60 years...Yet you say they had on right? A Communist coup is not a 'political process.'

    More tin-hat conspiracy....Tell me, what right did Communist NV have to summarily execute 150,000 to 200,000 people? Why did 450,000 flee from NV to SV?

    Yeah and Ho Chi Minh was a Communist puppet that exterminated hundreds and thousands. Diem was no where near that and himself was assassinated in 1963. It is amazing how you gloss over the atrocities of Communist regimes. You must be a Communist.
     
  10. waltky

    waltky Well-Known Member

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    No freedom of the press in Vietnam...
    :eekeyes:
    Vietnam gives long terms for subversion case: TV
    Tue, Feb 05, 2013 - SUPPRESSION, PERSECUTION’: A life sentence was given to the leader of the group and sentences of up to 17 years for others found printing anti-government documents
     
  11. RPA1

    RPA1 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I hope the OP is ok.
     
  12. wyly

    wyly Well-Known Member

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    but that is your net position...only the USA can revolt for economic or independence reasons, no other country can have that right without US approval...

    Ho Chi Minh was Chinese? the Viet Minh were chinese ? now you're making ludicrous claims...the Chinese never physically took part in the Vietnam war until 1968 seven years after the USA sent in the first troops, so that would be the americans who were territory grabbing seven years earlier...


    blind ignorance on your part, Diem survived only with US approval and support...what year did US troops first enter Vietnam? 1961...when was Diem removed by the CIA? 1963...the US decided who ran S Vietnam not the people of Vietnam...Diem never won a democratic election and the US supported him...



    in order to have a "coup" there needs to be a government to , the French occupation was not legitimate government, it was colonial/imperialism/aggression...an occupation...the Viet Minh was in control of North Vietnam/Hanoi in 1946 when the French forced them out...



    why the USA execute a greater number in the phillipines? politics is s*** business...



    so your psycho killer puppet is a nicer guy because he killed fewer LOL! so in your little rose coloured bubble world John Wayne Gacy is a good guy unlike that nasty Ted Bundy....anything to the right of Hitler must seem like a commie to you...You must be a Nazi.
     
  13. kaliff

    kaliff Newly Registered

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    Hi!
    Nice to meet you all.Myself is Alex from New york.I am interested in general politics and I am happy of joining this forum.
    Thanks to all here.
     
  14. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    He's in a re-education camp for starting this thread. He says he'll be back in 5 years (3 with good behavior).
     
  15. RPA1

    RPA1 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That is NOT my position, I never stated that you are lying.

    Might as well have been...

    He was summoned to Moscow for training and, in late 1924, he was sent to Canton, China, where he organized a revolutionary movement among Vietnamese exiles. He was forced to leave China when local authorities cracked down on Communist activities, but he returned in 1930 to found the Indochinese Communist party (ICP). He stayed in Hong Kong as representative of the Communist International.

    In 1938 he returned to China and served as an adviser with Chinese Communist armed forces.

    http://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/ho-chi-minh/biography.htm

    Who really knows who Ho Chi Minh was:

    Ho's given name at birth was Nguyen Tat Thanh. He also had another name - Nguyen Van Ba. Ho used this name when he worked as a steward in a ship, the La Touche Treville, on his overseas trip from Saigon to Marseilles, France. He changed back to Nguyen Tat Thanh after his arrival in France.

    Ho has been known by many aliases. His first alias, second well-known after Ho Chi Minh, was Nguyen Ai Quoc. This alias was picked by Phan Chu Trinh, a famous patriot, and used as a joint pen-name of four others: Phan Van Truong a lawyer; Nguyen The Truyen , an engineer who married to a princess of Belgium; Nguyen An Ninh , a journalist, and Phan Chu Trinh. However, Ho was the only one that publicly used the name Nguyen Ai Quoc.

    Ho also had around ten other aliases such as: Ly Thuy, Vuong, Tran, etc. Those names however, were not very well-known.


    In fact, Ho Chi Minh was a real name of an old Chinese man who was believed to be a beggar.with unlocated relatives. When he died, he left nothing but his identification card. Later, Nguyen Tat Thanh bought this document.

    http://www.vietquoc.com/0006vq.htm

    .

    Kennedy sent advisers, and increased funding for the S. Vietnamese Army as part of his doctrine to thwart Communism. That is not entering a country. In fact, he did it against the 1954 accords. There was no way to go in a take over that country.

    In the 2nd century, the Chinese conquered Vietnam and were there until the tenth century A.D. In the late 1200s Mongol Chinese armies constantly tried to invade Vietnam. In the 15the century China again invaded Vietnam.

    Communism would seek to gain power by indoctrination against so-called colonialism. In 1930 the French moved to put down a rebellion which opened the door for Ho to organize a communist movement outside the country in China.

    Stop pettifogging.

    More useless drivel....
     
  16. thundercracker

    thundercracker New Member

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    I didn’t understand all wyly and RPA1 said but I have some word.

    1/China don’t take Communist to Vietnam
    Ho Chi Minh is the one. He was a kitchen on a ship with purpose to travel around the world and find a way to save Vietnam.

    He finally found Frech to have political activity because of the freedom of political there. He read Marxism–Leninism. He brought the idea of Marxism–Leninism and CPV is established in 1930.

    Of couse he is not Chinese. China is just basement for his activities against wanted.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ho_Chi_Minh

    2/I think Communist, is not a aggessor or someone like that.
    My relatives, my teacher don’t tell me to hate someone like American or French solider.

    3/ First, Nazi Japan and French are friends. After join Vienam, Japan begin to betray French to make Vienam become colonial.

    After Spring 1940, we have to deal with both of them. 1945, about 2 million Vienamese dead because The involvement of France and Japan in Vietnam caused detrimental effects to the economic activities of the Vietnamese.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnamese_Famine_of_1945

    4/ America DID build good form of economy in Gia Dinh, South Vietnam( not all South). So why North Vietnam didn’t let it be.

    A juncture but a bunch of nature.They have learn from the failure of French. US government want to make some thing easy to show that US is ‘good’. They bring the diversity of food, goods, their education to South Vietnam.
    North Vietnam just want Vietnam to be as one like before. The coutryside of South is exhaust with policy of Diem.
    Through all, North decided to take chance after American imperialism failure ouside and win on 30/4/1945( our Independent day).
     
  17. thundercracker

    thundercracker New Member

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    Communication is control by goverment. Those news like this is not allowed to press in Vietnam.
     
  18. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I had not heard of Viet Tan

    http://www.viettan.org/-English-.html

    Welcome ThunderCracker. That name made me think of a redneck with a boom box. You probably wouldn't have a reference for that.
     
  19. thundercracker

    thundercracker New Member

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    "a redneck with a boom box". Ha, I just find the meaning of it, i wonder why you think so?
     
  20. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I used to live in a neighborhood where the young black people would drive by with their radio bass turned up so loud I would call them thunder cars. Cracker is a nickname for a white person, probably a hick or redneck. So ThunderCracker reminded me of those two things.
     
  21. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I see the Viet Tan are for democracy where the people decide the future of the country by vote for your politicians instead of a few select elite. I would not be surprised if the US supports them but probably with advice, maybe money since we support democracy and freedom.

    I was in the service during the Vietnam war but never went overseas and worked 3 stories underground (Strategic Air Command) for the cold war with Russia. I read a book recently called "They Marched into Sunlight" by David Marannis which outlined a particular day during the war where in Vietnam a group of soldiers suffered a massacre while in the States in Madison Wisconsin a group of students protesting the war (specifically napalm) suffered the first police brutality. What was interesting is that the research into the book was so good that the author even tracked down certain Vietnamese and interviewed them including the Vietnamese commander that ambushed the Americans (he said no one won that day).

    The Vietnam war pretty much cemented my view that we should not be pursuing any foreign wars. It was terrible for everyone. One of the founders of this country said that we should be allies to none but trade with all, more like Switzerland, and that is my view of what this country should do. Maybe someday this country will turn back to an ideology that all can admire. One can hope.
     
  22. RPA1

    RPA1 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I agree that Vietnam should be left alone. However, like so many small nations, Vietnam doesn't have the ability adequately defend itself in case of insurgency. That is why when Nazis and Japan invaded Vietnam and Vietnam got raped. Communism attached itself to a Nationalist movement in the person of Ho Chi Minh. The U.S. could have destroyed your country but didn't and ended up pulling out. Communist stayed.
     
  23. snooop

    snooop New Member

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    I'm from Vung Tau, too. It's a peaceful place to live. I definitely want to retire there.
     
  24. Chad2

    Chad2 Member

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    I believe that you are correct about Vietnam needing capitalism. But America is not a good place to study. America's government is corrupt and fully controlled by the rich, and CEO's from large corporations.

    Countries like Germany and Switzerland are better countries to study, their governments have capitalism, intelligence, caring, and honor.
    And they also outperform America in finances, health, and lifestyle.

    I do (not) have any connection to Vietnam, but sometimes I cross paths with Americans from Vietnam.

    I look forward to returning to this thread,
    Chad.
     
  25. thundercracker

    thundercracker New Member

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    Too many slang words and definitions i don't understand. Somebody suggest a dictionary or any thing, plz!
     
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