Highest Minimum-Wage State Leads In Job Growth

Discussion in 'Economics & Trade' started by Mr_Truth, Mar 6, 2014.

  1. Mr_Truth

    Mr_Truth Well-Known Member

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    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-...t-minimum-wage-state-beats-u-s-with-jobs.html


    When Washington residents voted in 1998 to raise the state’s minimum wage and link it to the cost of living, opponents warned the measure would be a job-killer. The prediction hasn’t been borne out.

    In the 15 years that followed, the state’s minimum wage climbed to $9.32 -- the highest in the country. Meanwhile job growth continued at an average 0.8 percent annual pace, 0.3 percentage point above the national rate. Payrolls at Washington’s restaurants and bars, portrayed as particularly vulnerable to higher wage costs, expanded by 21 percent. Poverty has trailed the U.S. level for at least seven years.

    The debate is replaying on a national scale as Democrats led by President Barack Obama push for an increase in the $7.25-an-hour federal minimum, while opponents argue a raise would hurt those it’s intended to help by axing jobs for the lowest-skilled. Even if that proves true, Washington’s example shows that any such effects aren’t big enough to throw its economy and labor market off the tracks.



    ... more at link ...



    This only makes sense:


    By increasing people's wages, they have more to spend. That promotes job growth as consumer spending accelerates production and consumption. Economists such as Harvard's Lawrence Katz and MIT's David Autor have studied and determined that there is no evidence to "prove" the myth that higher wages increase job losses.


    Therefore, we as a society need to demand that the minimum wage be increased in order to stimulate the economy and promote job growth.
     
  2. Hotdogr

    Hotdogr Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    correlation =/= causation
     
  3. OldRetiredGuy

    OldRetiredGuy New Member Past Donor

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    The article says that job growth in Washington grew at an annual rate of .3% above the national rate, that ain't exactly leading in job growth. That's just slighly better than average. IOW, the title of your thread is a lie. Doesn't sound so hot to me. And there's a difference between raising the MWage a little bit every year pegged to CPI or whatever, and one big jump of 40% all at once. Far as I'm concerned, the MWage should be a decision for each state, and the feds oughta keep their noses out of it.


    " When Washington residents voted in 1998 to raise the state’s minimum wage and link it to the cost of living, opponents warned the measure would be a job-killer. The prediction hasn’t been borne out.

    In the 15 years that followed, the state’s minimum wage climbed to $9.32 -- the highest in the country. Meanwhile job growth continued at an average 0.8 percent annual pace, 0.3 percentage point above the national rate. "
     
  4. Libertarianforlife

    Libertarianforlife Well-Known Member

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    Aww, poor OP. He takes one example, and leaves out another very important one:

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/williamdunkelberg/2012/12/31/why-raising-the-minimum-wage-kills-jobs/

    So I guess to liberals, 600,000 teens out of work is good news. Think about it, that makes sense. 600,000 out of work are 600,000 liberal voters. 600,000 more food stamp recipients (as themselves or as family members). Gotta love libs. You think they're stupid, but no, they are incredibly smart. They will enact legislation that LOOKS good, yet hurts their constituents. When those constituents end up on welfare/food stamps, it promises more people to vote for them in the future to ensure they keep getting their food stamps and free handouts. It's really a genius plan. It's like shooting someone in the leg and convincing them that the free bandaid is worth it.
     
  5. BleedingHeadKen

    BleedingHeadKen Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What is the labor force participation?

    I'll give you a hint: even as the unemployment rate has dropped, so has the total number of workers in Washington state.
    If your assertions were correct, not only should unemployment rates be going down, there should be more people working. That is *not* the case.

    The belief that consumption creates wealth is putting the cart before the horse. In order to consume, there must first be production. Spending doesn't create more wealth, it's the other way around.
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  6. BleedingHeadKen

    BleedingHeadKen Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What's sad about these statistics played up by progressives is that they coveniently ignore the numbers within the numbers. For instance, labor force participation is down, so as people stop looking for work the overall unemployment rate drops and they claim victory. They also ignore the fact that as minimum wage rises, so to does unemployment among the most vulnerable segments of the population, such as African American youth, and youth in general. In Washington, the unemployment rate among 16-19 year-olds has gone UP since 1998. That means that young people, who need valuable job skills in order to be more productive in the future, who are seeking jobs are unable to get them. Employers forced to pay higher wages are not going to hire unskilled labor. But it doesn't matter who they hurt, right, so long as they can report an overall number that appears favorable. Never let a liberal progressive tell you that his kind loves minorities. They implement highly racist policies, like minimum wage, which hurt minorities more than anything else.
     
  7. Battle3

    Battle3 Well-Known Member

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    Sure, economic success is totally dependent upon the minimum wage. Not. And as others have already pointed out, Washington state is *generally* better than the rest of the nation, but that does not mean it is a success.
     
  8. goober

    goober New Member

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    So if the minimum wage gets raised, every person who loses their job afterwards is because of the increase in the minimum wage, and every job added is despite the increase in the minimum wage....
     
  9. BleedingHeadKen

    BleedingHeadKen Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It really should be looked as who is most likely to lose their job, or never get one, in a high labor price floor (minimum wage) environment? Those in favor like to pretend that no one is hurt by it, so they obfuscate the argument with whatever makes them look good, and ignore anything that shows that people are genuinely harmed by these regulations. They'll point to the fact that unemployment rates aren't significantly affected, but they'll ignore that unemployment among black youth goes up after a minimum wage increase and is extremely high at this time. They'll also ignore the fact, which I realize is just a correlation, that black youth unemployment was lower than that of white youth prior to the enactment of federal minimum wage laws.
     
  10. Mr_Truth

    Mr_Truth Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]



    Obama: Maybe I should say I oppose raising the minimum wage, then Republicans would be for it


    http://www.mediaite.com/tv/obama-tr...ybe-if-i-said-i-opposed-raising-minimum-wage/



    On Wednesday, President Barack Obama traveled to New Britain, Connecticut, where he made his case for a national increase of the minimum wage to $10.10 for all workers. Towards the end of his speech there, the president toyed with the idea of using some reverse psychology on his Republican opponents. “Maybe I should say I oppose raising the minimum wage,” he said. Then, “they’d be for it.”


    Obama cited statistics that say nearly 75% of all Americans and 50% of Republicans support raising the minimum wage, but somehow Republicans in Congress almost uniformly oppose it. “Now, I don’t know if that’s because I proposed it,” he joked.

    “Maybe I should say I oppose raising the minimum wage,” Obama said. “They’d be for it, that’s possible.”
     
  11. Libertarianforlife

    Libertarianforlife Well-Known Member

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    Democratic underground? :roflol:

    Me thinky Forbes is a little wee bit more reliable than democratic underground! LOL

    Even CNN agrees:

    http://money.cnn.com/2014/02/18/news/economy/minimum-wage-cbo/

    Liberals love the CBO when it reports that Obama's debt won't be as high next year, but they seem to ignore it when it says it could cost 500,000 jobs. What I want to know is, liberals, why are you so in favor of a minimum wage increase while, if someone works a full time job at federal minimum wage, they make 3 THOUSAND DOLLARS more a year than the poverty level, and this is ONE PERSON. The poverty level for a family of 4 is 22k a year. Two full time minimum wage parents would pull in 8 THOUSAND DOLLARS MORE A YEAR than poverty level. Why the need for a minimum wage increase again?
     
  12. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    of course it does, when the majority of the people have more to spend, the economy benifits
     
  13. Libertarianforlife

    Libertarianforlife Well-Known Member

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    How do 500,000 fewer people having jobs equal "the majority of people having more to spend?" We can call that the "inconvenient truth."

    Where do you think this "extra" money comes from? Either customers, or the business. If either has fewer dollars because you're paying a burger flipper 10 dollars an hour, the majority of people have FEWER dollars and the minority have more. Like the link I already posted shows, this money doesn't come from thin air. In order for these people to make more, someone has to give it to them. That someone has fewer dollars to spend elsewhere.
     
  14. WallStreetVixen

    WallStreetVixen New Member

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    Then why is Texan Economic growth on par with Seattle's?
     
  15. WallStreetVixen

    WallStreetVixen New Member

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    It's also not true at all that Washington leads in Job growth.

    http://beta.bls.gov/maps/cew/us

    There are 9 states with higher employment growth than Washington. All of whom have lower minimum wages than Washington.
     
  16. goober

    goober New Member

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    There isn't any straight line in real world economics, anything that helps people also hurts people.
    It's a matter of the relative size of the benefits and harms, minimum wage helps a lot more people than it hurts.
    Just like tax cuts for the wealthy hurt a lot more people than they help.....
     
  17. OldRetiredGuy

    OldRetiredGuy New Member Past Donor

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    Washington state's mwage isn't helping their young folks much.


    snippet:


    The unemployment rate for teenagers in Washington state is 34.5 percent, the third highest in the country.

    Only the District of Columbia at 48.9 percent and Georgia at 36.8 percent have higher unemployment rates for 16- to 19-year-olds, according to U.S. Census Bureau data analyzed by the Employment Policies Institute (EPI) of Washington, D.C.

    The U.S. average teen unemployment rate is 24.2 percent for all teenagers, as of April 2011. That rate rises to 40.7 percent for black teenagers, according to census/EPI analysis.

    In a statement, EPI researchers blame states with high minimum wage requirements for the high teen unemployment rates, especially among black teenagers. Washington in 2011 has the highest state minimum wage, at $8.67 per hour.

    http://www.bizjournals.com/seattle/news/2011/06/13/washington-state-teen-unemployment.html
     
  18. OldRetiredGuy

    OldRetiredGuy New Member Past Donor

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    Furthermore:

    http://researchcouncil.files.wordpress.com/2014/02/16to19unemploymentfinal1.pdf

    For 2013, Washington’s overall unemployment rate of 7.0 percent was better than the overall national rate of 7.4 percent. For the 16 to 19 age category, however, Washington’s unemployment rate was quite a bit higher than the national rate, 30.6 percent versus 22.9 percent.

    Washington’s minimum wage has been greater than the national minimum wage since 1999. In November 1998, Washington voters approved Initiative 688, increasing the state minimum wage to $5.70 on January 1, 1999 and to $6.50 on January 1, 2000. On each January 1 thereafter, the initiative provides a percentage increase to the minimum wage equal to the (August to August) percentage increase in the consumer price index for urban wage earners and clerical workers. This has resulted in an increase in every year from 2001 to 2014 except for 2010.

    In 1997, Washington’s 16 to 19 unemployment rate was slightly below the national value (15.8 percent versus 16.0 percent), while in 1998 it was somewhat above the national value (16.0 percent versus 14.6 percent). In 1999, after I-688 came into effect the gap between the Washington and national 16 to 19 unemployment rates expanded to 4.2 percentage points (18.1 percent versus 13.9 percent). In every year after I-866, Washington’s 16 to 19 unemployment rate is greater than the national value.


    ( I688 refers to the m-wage law.)
     
  19. Mr_Truth

    Mr_Truth Well-Known Member

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    No state in the Union gets more Federal aid than does Texas.
     
  20. Libertarianforlife

    Libertarianforlife Well-Known Member

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    Care to address oldretiredguys posts up a few notches?

    Specifically this:

    So much for high minimum wage helping workers.

    I think the OP of this thread has been debunked. Proof has been presented that not only are they not the highest growth rate, they are 10th highest and all the states above them have lower minimum wages. I sure am glad I'm not the liberal who posted this thread. I would be EMBARRASSED.
     
  21. Skorpius7

    Skorpius7 New Member

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    QFT

    10char
     
  22. WallStreetVixen

    WallStreetVixen New Member

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  23. CaptainPierce

    CaptainPierce New Member

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    Even the most Keynesian of economists would have to agree that the minimum wage has a negative impact on employment. The question is, would that negative impact outway the benefits of the higher wage?

    Personally I think if we are going to tax business, give them a choice.

    "Pay us the money in tax, or pay your staff better"

    Sort of a tax break for the altruistic.
     
  24. WallStreetVixen

    WallStreetVixen New Member

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    Well, you can either see it from one out of two perspectives.

    1. Think about the amount of jobs you could potentially destroy.

    2. Think about the amount of jobs you could potentially prevent from being created.

    Most people only consider scenario #1.
     
  25. Libertarianforlife

    Libertarianforlife Well-Known Member

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    The only way you're going to make a burger flipper be worth more is to make them work more. Instead of just putting burgers together, now they have to mop the floor, clean the bathrooms, etc. That means the minimum wage worker that was hired to mop the floor and clean the bathrooms is no longer needed.

    Liberals don't understand economics of labor. Labor is based upon skill. If all you can do is flip patties, then your pay should reflect that. If you can balance a large companies books, then it should reflect that as well. But to arbitrarily force a company to pay more for an employee just because it makes liberals feel good doesn't help anyone. Make a company pay more than an employee is worth and instead of making $7.25 an hour, they make $0.00/hr in the unemployment line.
     

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