Historical mysteries:12,000 Years city in Kurdistan. older then Pyramids, and anythin

i m too lazy for this , i have seen this information in the book which is defiantly not in Sweden right now

 

interesting archeology indeed litwin but the commentary in the video was embarrassing amatuerish, not an real archeologist anywhere in sight...I hate it when these types add their stupid opinions, at any moment I expect them to credit aliens or atlantis for the find...

 

there was one black dynasty that I'm aware of but it lasted less than 200 yrs...

 

I think you may have that backwards, slave being derived from Slav...

 

I think it was closer to about 80 years with one pharaoh ruling for nearly half that

 

You could be right but ya it wasn't very long...

 

its a strong hypotheses

 

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I have a vague memory of it from reading a history of the place. Knowing how much the Egyptians hated the Nubians it must have really chocked them to have to deal with it at the time

 

This was the 25th Dynasty, from 760BCE to 656BCE. It lasted 104 years, until their attempt to push into the Middle East was crushed by Sargon II of Assyria, who then counter-invaded and destroyed the Dynasty, setting up the puppet 26th Dynasty. This is the only recorded era of time where there was a "Black Pharaoh".

 

The smooth, decreasing gradient in the AIDA II values that is observed in the spatial autocorrelation analysis also supports the conclusion of past migrations along the Nile River Valley. Moreover, the lack of any significant fluctuations in the correlograms suggests that there have not been any significant local barriers to migration or significant local drift effects. However, although the mtDNA results indicate that migrations have occurred in both directions along the Nile River Valley, these migrations have not been extensive enough to genetically homogenize the mtDNA gene pools of Nile River Valley populations. Significant differences exist among Egyptian, Nubian, and southern Sudanese mtDNA types, with Nubians appearing to be more similar to Egyptians than to the southern Sudanese and with Egyptians and the southern Sudanese exhibiting the greatest differences. This is perhaps to be expected, given that, during the second millenium b.c., Pharaonic Egypt colonized part or most of Nubia and that Nubian kings conquered Egypt during the 8th and 7th centuries b.c. (Shaw and Nicholson 1995). Thus, there is historical evidence documenting much direct interaction between Egypt and Nubia.

We can infer that the migration of northern mtDNA types to the south is older than the migration of southern mtDNA types to the north (or that there has been less gene flow from north to south than from south to north along the Nile River Valley) and that Egypt and Nubia have had more genetic contact than either has had with the southern Sudan. Moreover, we can tentatively infer that these migrations occurred recently enough to fall within the period of the documented historical record of human populations in the Nile River Valley. Thus, it is tempting to try to relate these migrations to specific historical events (Shaw and Nicholson 1995). For example, the migration from north to south may coincide with the Pharaonic colonization of Nubia, which occurred initially during the Middle Kingdom (12th Dynasty, 1991–1785 b.c.) and more permanently during the New Kingdom, from the reign of Thotmosis III (1490–1437 b.c.). The migration from south to north may coincide with the 25th Dynasty (730–655 b.c.), when kings from Napata in Nubia conquered Egypt. Of course, additional migrations documented during the Ptolemeic, Roman, and Arabic times are also likely to have contributed to the current distribution of mtDNA types along the Nile River Valley.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0002929707631826

 

Well jonah certianly won't appreciate that bit of genetic sleuthing, his fantasies of a sub saharan super african civilization destroyed forever...

Egyptians with genetic contributions from the occasional invader are essenetinally the same people that have lived there for thousands of years...

 

And these "genetic drifts" work in a great many ways. A commander of an army who goes into Upper Egypt and brings home a concubine, who then gives birth to a daughter. 6 generations later a descendent of this child (1/32 "Nubian") then marries a member of the lower nobility, who 3 generations gives birth to a new Dynasty. This member is now 1/256th "Nubian", not enough to show in any way, other then in a genetics scan that is only capable in the last few dozen years.

So is there "Nubian Blood" in pretty much every part of the Ancient Egyptian ruling families? More then likely, yes. Does it matter a single bit? Not at all.

 

assimilation, genetically swamped by the vastly more numerous host....

 

Not one bit beyond idle curiosity

 

That is one of the most amazing things about the United States.

We are really the only "Immigrant Nation" from the very beginning. 13 British Colonies, made up of a conglomeration of British and Dutch colonies. Quickly becoming a destination from most of Western Europe. Then later adding in former French, Spanish, then Mexican and Russian territories. "American" within a few score years of it's foundation became more of a concept then a real "ethnic identity".

I remember in the early days of the Internet talking to people in chat rooms from Central and Eastern Europe. They simply could not comprehend that my wife was from South America, and my family background includes German, French, English, Norwegian, and American Indian backgrounds. Such mixing was simply incomprehensible to them, but here in the US it is taken for granted. We have no problem of celebrating St. Patrick's Day, then turning right around and celebrating Cinco de Mayo.

So here we look at such mixings and think nothing of it, while it drives many others with their obsessions with "pure bloods" to distraction.

 

Then why are europeans, like yourself, so intent on pretending the Ancient Egyptians are anything but 'black'?

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This is a typical ignorant, as in not knowing, european comment.
How long have you studied Egyptology?

 

Most of the Pharaohs of Dynastic Egypt were what we today consider 'black'.

Its ok to use the one drop rule in america, its ok to use it for AEgypt. Contemporary 'Black' Egyptians', ones who self designate as 'black' are repackaged and renamed white as soon as they enter the sphere of ignorance that is western culture.

 

Strawman much?

When did iever say it was a subsahara civilization?

Subsahara is a fictional designation it means nothing, refers to a region not a people. Are Sudanese subsahara? Are Ethiopians subsahara? Are Nubians subsahara?

 

Yes we see much the same in Australia, though our mixing began a lot later than the US. And I strongly believe such mixing is a cultural plus for any nations. It does enrich your life to be able to go to St Patrick's day parade, a cherry blossom festival and see a festival of the wheel take place. It helps you understand how alike we all are and how wonderful the minor differences make life.

 

I am not trying to pretend anything. The color of a people does not enter much into my thinking. If anyone really cared enough there is plenty of DNA around from all periods of Egyptian history to define what their ethnic origins where.

And are you suggesting I should not attempt to broaden my mind, to understand the cultures and history of other peoples. Do you further suggest that I or anyone else on these forums needs to be an accredited expert in a field before being allowed to comment on a subject. Can I not admire the pyramids without first showing my architectural degree. Can I not discuss the battle of the Nile with out first proving I am an Admiral in the British fleet.

I have never made any definitive statements about the ethnicity of Egyptians, here or anywhere else, so maybe you should consider ratcheting down the outrage a few notches and let an intelligent balanced discussion take place

 

No, they are not. They are like Egyptians today.

Here is a color bas relief, from Ramses II. Notice something?



Well, he is holding by the hair to show dominance a Nubian, a Syrian, and a Libyan. Now notice the color of the Nubian. Yes, Egyptians knew how to make a black pigment. They used it for Nubians all the time. However, they did not use it for themselves. Why not? Well, obviously because they were not black.



Here is another one, with Egyptians holding Nubian captives. Notice that the captives are obviously black, but the Egyptians holding them are not.



Yet another one, of Numidians paying tribute to Egypt.

And I can show you thousands of such reliefs, still in their original colors. And showing the Nubians looking very different from the Egyptians.

And while you may consider them "black", I do not. And I am not going to comment on what that says about you and what you think.

 

whats interesting here that Egyptians panted Nubians (and "Asians") much like white racists paint them today

 

Here is another poster highly ignorant about Afrikan history. Surely another expert who has only studied Egyptology for 2 days now.
Todays Egyptians are descended from slaves during dynastic rule and from the muslim conquests of 600, remember Islam? Spread by the sword or word of mouth?

There is more than one shade of 'black'. There is Will Smith black (rameses) and there is Wesley Snipes black (menes). Afrikans are very diverse and actually, during Rameses II reign, Lower Nubia was within AEgypts borders. He built many Temples in Nubia dedicated to his own rule over Nubia and to Nefetari his wife. If you like, todays Zimbabweans would be the colour of Nubians and todays Sudanese would be the colour of Ancient Egyptians.
That you continuously and falsely refer to NUBIANS and NUMIDIANS [a completely different nation, from Carthage] is ample evidence of a real novice showing everyone that he knows not what he is talking about.

All iam doing is explaining to you and your friends that in order to make comments on this subject, a subject non of you have admitted to studying in the least, then at least be aware that there is a very, very high possibility that you will be wrong.

 

He is making his point with images that back up his position.

You are just expressing your opinion, without any support.

I go with Mushroom.

 

The ones who start the picture game are normally the ones with the weakest arguments, jus sayin'

Its been beaten to death, is lazy and is basically one of the reasons AEgypt collapsed and Israel claimed the dominant role, outlawing idol worship and all