History of Islamic Jihad

Discussion in 'Ethnic & Religious Conflicts' started by 762nato, Jul 4, 2011.

  1. MegadethFan

    MegadethFan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2010
    Messages:
    17,385
    Likes Received:
    123
    Trophy Points:
    63
    You have a problem with Muslims too dont you changed?
     
  2. protectionist

    protectionist Banned

    Joined:
    May 3, 2011
    Messages:
    13,898
    Likes Received:
    126
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Why would he not have a problem with them ?
     
  3. protectionist

    protectionist Banned

    Joined:
    May 3, 2011
    Messages:
    13,898
    Likes Received:
    126
    Trophy Points:
    0
    All of it.
     
  4. MegadethFan

    MegadethFan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2010
    Messages:
    17,385
    Likes Received:
    123
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Because Islam is like any other religion - capable of destruction and peace where one wants either.
     
  5. MegadethFan

    MegadethFan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2010
    Messages:
    17,385
    Likes Received:
    123
    Trophy Points:
    63
    I contend that such utilization was based on socio-political conditions rather than religious direction. You disagree?
     
  6. protectionist

    protectionist Banned

    Joined:
    May 3, 2011
    Messages:
    13,898
    Likes Received:
    126
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I challenge the notion that Israel, a tiny country surrounded by numerous countries filled with Jew-hating, infidel-hating, uncivilized barbaric savages, uses terrorism. I also challenge the notion that the USA uses terrorism. Where since the year 2000, do you find the USA using terrorism ? Upon what do you base that statement?
     
  7. MrConservative

    MrConservative Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2011
    Messages:
    1,681
    Likes Received:
    28
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Those numbers killed by Muslims could be exaggerated. That's a whole lot of people ya know. Also, the Crusaders wiped out the entire population in Jerusalem. If that's the case, then a whole lot more people than just 3,000 people were killed. Jerusalem was a large city.
     
  8. MegadethFan

    MegadethFan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2010
    Messages:
    17,385
    Likes Received:
    123
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Challenge it all you like, its true.

    The USA was found guilty of international terrorism under Reagan by the World Court. And that was just one instance of its criminal activities.

    Iraq (through sanctions), also protection of notable Haitian, Cuban and Venezuelan terrorists. Support for the blockade of Gaza. Blockade of Cuba. Those are ones that come to mind immediately but there are probably others.

    See above.
     
  9. MegadethFan

    MegadethFan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2010
    Messages:
    17,385
    Likes Received:
    123
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Making conclusions about religions based on the killings through wars, crimes etc etc that more often than not had very little to do with religion, Crusades included, is the most ignorant way to obtain any knowledgeable information on the actual given directives of religion. If history teaches us anything, its that EVERY religion works to express, support and expand the socio-political goals and aspirations of the those within a specific time and place.
     
  10. protectionist

    protectionist Banned

    Joined:
    May 3, 2011
    Messages:
    13,898
    Likes Received:
    126
    Trophy Points:
    0
    HA HA HA. You don't get it. This IS 21st century IN USE taqiyya - doesn't matter what the Koran says. This is the taqiyya that Muslim jihadists now use everyday as standard operating procedure. Don't you know anything ?
     
  11. protectionist

    protectionist Banned

    Joined:
    May 3, 2011
    Messages:
    13,898
    Likes Received:
    126
    Trophy Points:
    0
    FALSE ! The statement includes the assumption that Islam is a religion. Islam is not, and never has been a religion. It's obvious how Islam came to be purported as a "religion". When the founders of it were espousing imperialist genocidal mass murder, extreme misogyny, pedophilia, kidnapping/slavery, torture/mutilation, racial and sexist discrimination, and other vile things, and were looking for troops to join them in their conquests throughout Asia Minor, they needed something very powerful and extreme to offset and shield them from the severe condemnation they were sure to get.
    The answer was religion. By pretending that the Koran, and all of its hatred and immorality was the word of God, they forced the people to accept it. After all, nobody wants to go against God do they ? As this grandiose con job spread, over time it became deeper and deeper entrenched as a religion, and more and more difficult to abolish or reform, especially when 270 million people (Africans, Christians, Hindus, & Buddhists) were being killed to spread it. The sad thing is that over the 1400 year history of this abomination, not one word of the Koran has been changed.

    So Islam is not like other religions. "Other religions" don't have a guidebook which commands it adherents to go out and kill non-believers, to beat wives, to kidnap and then enslave people, to commit pedophilia, to deceive, to kill innocent animals for no reason, to kill homosexuals, to rape, to rob, to torture, to mutilate, and to subjugate everyone under their command. Only Islam and its Koran does that.

    So I ask again : Why would he not have a problem with them ? (and everything I just described)
     
  12. protectionist

    protectionist Banned

    Joined:
    May 3, 2011
    Messages:
    13,898
    Likes Received:
    126
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Of course I disagree. It had nothing to do with religion. I (and millions of others) do not accept the notion of Islam being a religion. And no, I don't think it had anything to do with "socio-political conditions". It had to do with one man, Mo the pedophile, being a selfish jerk, who, unable to provide for himself, took to robbing and raiding, followed by other worse deviations of behavior, and to cover it all devised the "religion" scam, the Koran, and imperialist genocide. The monster then took off on a life of its own as the Muslim marauders conquered, and just kept conquering. The legacy of Mohammed > Conquest.
     
  13. MegadethFan

    MegadethFan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2010
    Messages:
    17,385
    Likes Received:
    123
    Trophy Points:
    63
    LOL! I'll just wait till the end for my response...

    You are saiyng they didnt think the Quran was the word of god before?

    I do.

    Lets just take one step at a time, rather than conflate both history and aspects of the religion. If you want to analyze the beginnings of Islam, lets do that. If you want to analyze the history of Islam, we can do that as well. And if you want to analyze concepts within its theology, we can do that too - but we CANNOT do them ALL AT THE SAME TIME. If we try that, we shall simply delve into repetitive rhetoric. These issues need to be fleshed out not summarized. Pick one and we'll analyze it and then move to the next.

    Actually Islam isnt much different, at all, form the other Abrahamic religions. It is closer to Judaism than Christianity for obvious reasons, but the three are far more similar than dissimilar. In fact all the things you mentioned above - textual direction, killing non-believers, discrimination against women, yadda yadda can be found in all three of the creeds - and at the same time all three can find means of disavowing all these acts.

    Because as I said before, Islam is inherently no different to any other creed. Now if you want to analyze this fact, or debate it, we can, but lets take one aspect of this assertion at a time rather than all of it at once. Perhaps starting at Islam's origins would be a good place to start such discussion.
     
  14. MegadethFan

    MegadethFan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2010
    Messages:
    17,385
    Likes Received:
    123
    Trophy Points:
    63
    'doesnt matter what the koran says'! HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

    But jihadists are tiny minority of Muslims.
     
  15. protectionist

    protectionist Banned

    Joined:
    May 3, 2011
    Messages:
    13,898
    Likes Received:
    126
    Trophy Points:
    0
    1. So you don't accept the challenge. Just saying "it's true" isn't answering a challenge. You show you have no evidence of Israel being terrorist.

    2. I said I challenge the notion that the USA uses terrorism. Notice that the verb "uses" is in the present tense. Reagan's troubles with the World Court Nicaraguan contra funding was over 25 years ago. Not present tense. Note : I opposed Reagan and I supported the democratically elected Sandanistas.

    3. I opposed the Bush policy on Iraq partially. Not sure if it would come under the caption "terrorism" though. Vietnam maybe, but that's going way back.

    4. Support of notable Haitian, Cuban and Venezuelan terrorists ? if they really are "notable", shouldn't be a problem to know their names then right ?
    Who are they ?

    5. Support for the blockade of Gaza is not terrrorism, and in fact it is justified as Hamas ws sending weapons through to kill Israelis. More like self-defense.

    6. Blockade of Cuba ? LOL. I've never supported that blockade, but I wouldn't call it "terrroist".

    In sum, your whole post looks like one big S-T-R-E-T-C-H.
     
  16. protectionist

    protectionist Banned

    Joined:
    May 3, 2011
    Messages:
    13,898
    Likes Received:
    126
    Trophy Points:
    0
    OK. I challenge the assertion that Islam is like Christianity. I find them to be about as opposite as deserts and rainforests. You want to take one aspect at a time. No problem. Let's start with wife-beating. The Koran advocates it. I say the Christian bible doesn't. Your take ?
     
  17. Margot

    Margot Account closed, not banned

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2010
    Messages:
    62,072
    Likes Received:
    345
    Trophy Points:
    0
    LOLOL..

    Why not explore the history of the Conquistadors?
     
  18. MegadethFan

    MegadethFan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2010
    Messages:
    17,385
    Likes Received:
    123
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Why not? Also where did you get the idea 'millions' agree with you?

    You think it operated in a vacuum of time and space?

    How was he a pedo?

    How was he selfish? And yet the fourth pillar of Islam is almsgiving -zakāt?

    But he was a wealthy, well respected middle class merchant at the time of his revelations.

    After he himself was robbed.

    Which was socially acceptable practice in the Hijaz

    Like?

    Scam? LOL Also what the hell is this 'genocide' you keep speaking of?

    That is true they indeed established an empire - no different to the other Abrahamic traditions.

    Not really. Mohammad didnt do much by way of conquest. It was only after when the 'rightly guided ones' (I dont think they were LOL) were engaged in tribal conflicts with clans that attempted to cut off their ties with the Muslim community. By retaining such connections, by force, they inevitably found themselves embroiled in the well established conflict of the Byzantine Empire and Sassanian Empire's wars, which they engaged and one out in. This expansionist policy was not one they sought, as historians have noted, rather one they became engaged in, dominated, and then pursued. If you want to discuss this further, by all means we can.
     
  19. protectionist

    protectionist Banned

    Joined:
    May 3, 2011
    Messages:
    13,898
    Likes Received:
    126
    Trophy Points:
    0
    1. I'm not so sure about that. Jihadists are both the violent jihadists (Al Qaeda, Hamas, Hezbollah, Al Shabbab, Jamaat ul-Fuqra, etc) AND the non-violent Stealth Jihadists (Muslim Brotherhood and thousands of their front groups). This all together adds up to much more than a tiny minority. Also polls show that (especially in Islamic countries) jihadist ideals are quite popular, and often in in the majority. Want to bet against the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt's upcoming elections ? I wouldn't.

    2. Population of Muslims is an overrated idea. In the case os Islamic jihad, plenty of political force can be exerted (even enough to overthrow the USA)
    by a combination of things other than population > MONEY and POLITICAL INFLUENCE.
     
  20. MegadethFan

    MegadethFan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2010
    Messages:
    17,385
    Likes Received:
    123
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Well they are very close, not only in detail but also in practice, history (in some ways) and application. Examples: they both have texts as a major function of determining how to live. They follow the same line of prophets - one just has more. Not only this but they follow the same God and have very similar principles, such as helping the poor, looking out for oppressed etc.

    How so?

    Well, both can be used to justify wife beating, yes. Its really interpretation. This passage from the Quran (4:34) derives the word and terminology of 'beating' and 'beat her', 'scowled her' etc, from one term - adribuhunna, which equally can mean - 'turn away from them', 'ignore them', or even, quite amazingly "have loving sex with them". There are plenty of other versus stating the duty of the husband to protect and respect, as well as the equality of the two. Mohammad was publicly scowled by his own wives, particularly Aisha, yet he tolerated it. One example of her insubordination, and his acceptance which was very intriguing was her insistence on accompanying him to the battlefield on occasion. He strongly objected but she went along anyway and all he did was get annoyed - no beatings. Its really about interpretation. On the other hand you have complete sexist pigs like Umar, who was known for his attempts at getting the prophet to institute completely sexist laws.
    In the Bible the story is similar again. Exodus gives various instructions on how your wife is your property and how to sell your daughter etc;
    http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/ex/21.html
    Most of the punishments relate to communally orientated acts, but they are incredibly sexist. One particular passage is Deuteronomy 25:11-12 that says a husband can cut off a woman’s hand if she touches the “secrets” of a man who is fighting him “And thine eye shall not pity her.” In a clear trend that is present throughout the Bible, there is no punishment for the man she touched, only the woman.
    But then you also have Ephesians which has plenty saying how one should treat their wife equally and with respect etc. Again its interpretation and context.
     
  21. MegadethFan

    MegadethFan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2010
    Messages:
    17,385
    Likes Received:
    123
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Um.. no jihadis use jihad as a violent political means. I have never heard of 'stealth jihadi'. Sounds like another of those Islamophobic creations to just invent or manipulate concepts to insult others.

     
  22. protectionist

    protectionist Banned

    Joined:
    May 3, 2011
    Messages:
    13,898
    Likes Received:
    126
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Because for starters I chose to explore wife beating, that's why, little Miss Change the Subject. I'm willing to discuss anything, but for now it's wife beating.
     
  23. protectionist

    protectionist Banned

    Joined:
    May 3, 2011
    Messages:
    13,898
    Likes Received:
    126
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I don't think that you are this incredibly ignorant, that you would not know of all the things you are asking questionas about. I realize by now that you are an Islamist, an many of them are strenuously sheltered from reality, the truth, simple history, but even most sheltered Islamist know the basics of what has been occuring over the past 1400 yeqrs with Islam. I don't believe that you don't, and as 5've stated before since I'm moving in a few days, i don't have time to get into long explanations of what even moderately educated people all know, for someone who is playing games in this thread.


    Like you don't know Mohammed was a pedophile right ? Like you don't know the history of Islam is the history of 1400 years of genocidal (against "infidels") imperialism, huh ? Like you don't know all of the wife beating, the kidapping/slavery, the animal cruelty, the torture/mutilation, and other vile evils of Islam, right ?
    You're a baldfaced liar, and not a very good one.
     
  24. protectionist

    protectionist Banned

    Joined:
    May 3, 2011
    Messages:
    13,898
    Likes Received:
    126
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I really don't have time to debate with an idiot. There's no such thing as Islamaphobia. That is a creation of Islamapologists to discredit those who objectively, scholarly, truthfully report about Islam, islamic terrorism, and Stealth Jihad. If you really didn't know what stealth jihad is then you're pathetically UNINFORMED, and need to do a lot of reading. You can start with these 2 books, and then come back and report to me.

    1. They Must Be Stopped by Brigitte Gabriel

    2. Stealth Jihad by Robert Spencer

    And please don't try to weasel out of educating yourself with what you don't want to know by trying to discredit the authors. They are New York Times bestselling, respected authors of very high scholarship. We all know that one of the prime taqiyya techniques of Islamists is invalidation. Invalidation is hardwired into Islamapologists. That won't work around here. Don't even think about it, unless you want to make yourself look even more foolish that you already do.
     
  25. MegadethFan

    MegadethFan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2010
    Messages:
    17,385
    Likes Received:
    123
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Like I said, if you want to have a thorough discussion on a certain issue, I'd be happy to participate. Furthermore, I'm actually an atheist.

    No I do not believe that at all.

    No it isnt.

    You keep saying that yet avoid EVERY chance of actually making a case and proving your points. Its plainly obvious you can't.
     

Share This Page