Hitler Wouldn’t Risk Doomsday, But The United States Did

Got a cite for a textbook including any of that? The details of the Japanese surrender and their WMD programs have not been widely reported and much of it was not even revealed until recently.

 

To clarify. We were taught, and still are, that the US could have demonstrated the A-bomb, or only dropped only one to push the Japanese surrender.
We were not taught that even 2 strikes was not enough to persuade the Japanese government to surrender. The Emperor, at the risk of his life, had to intervene - and even that intervention was resisted by the military.

 

Hmmm. Not what I remember. I remember being taught we dropped the bombs to end war because Japan was being stubbornly recalcitrant to the point of willing to sacrifice millions of Japanese lives if necessary. Essentially, they needed to get it through their heads that resistance was futile. We did, they did, and everybody prospered. Bloody good show.

Been a long time, though. Maybe my memories just melded themselves together.

 

That sounds most interesting. I would appreciate seeing it it's not too much trouble

The Germans Otto Hahn and Fritz Strassman were the first to achieve actual Fission in 1939 and it was knowledge of this achievement that Niels Bohr smuggled out of Denmark and then showed to Einstein. Einstein's famous letter to Roosevelt about this was what actually began the Manhattan Project.

But again, how would they have made the U-235 referred to in your previous post? Did they have anything comparable to our plants at Oak Ridge and Hanford? I have been told they were going to use Heavy Water from the Norway plant to make buffers for a reactor that could then have made Plutonium but we all know what happened there.

The speculations that the Atom Bomb might ignite the atmosphere was about the Hydrogen bomb in the early 1950's, wasn't it?

 

If they weren't developing the A-Bomb why did the Nazi enrich bomb grade uranium oxide, just for fun?

https://www.atomicheritage.org/history/timeline

 

There is nothing to challenge in the accuracy of anything from your posts. You are simply repeating the same four talking points from outdated interpretations of history. Yes there was a palace coup by elements of the military after the political apparatus had agreed to Potsdam but it failed and the principles killed themselves after the event. No one questions that elements in the military rejected the call to surrender. It was unthinkable under Japanese military code. But the fact remains that the political leadership knew the war was over and were seeking terms. These figures included Sazuki, Togo, Anami and in fact all of the big six on the supreme council who were advising the Emperor to seek terms and even to accept Potsdam with the caveat that the Emperor remain.

The facts remain:

By June the Emperor and the supreme council were reaching out to the Swiss and even the Vatican to help negotiate terms

As early as July Sato was trying to get the Soviets to intervene on Japan's behalf before the Russians broke the treaty and attacked Manchuria

By the end of July Sato had written the Supreme Council that without unconditional surrender there was no way to avoid Soviet intervention in the war.

Dethronement of the Emperor was really the only sticking point left in negotiations.

Forrestal, Nimitz, Eisenhower, Lehey and even Marshall are all on record as saying that dropping the bombs were unnecessary and the Japanese were ready to surrender far before the Soviet invasion of Manchuria and the Islands.

You have not addressed any of this other than to continue with the same four statements about a coup that ended up being a minor sideshow by a military structure that thought surrender unthinkable and had already been accustomed to firebombing that killed 100,000 in Tokyo and many, many more around Japan by US airraids.

The truth is that Hatanaka's little coup amounted to very little in the grand scheme and that when Tanaka told him to go home he did - and killed himself.

Did you read any of the supplementary material I provided or did you think if you just ignored and kept on repeating four statements you would somehow bamboozle what are clearly facts as reported by the principles on the ground who theoretically would have a better perspective than you, an apologist talking 70 years after the event would.

Here, I'll repost in the hopes that you will actually take the time to read:

and:

https://www.thenation.com/article/why-the-us-really-bombed-hiroshima

In the interest of intellectual honesty please address the points I have made before asking others to address your talking points which you have failed to document or substantiate in any meaningful way?

 

That was the USG line, we were taught that this might not have been true. That the Japanese might have surrendered without the use of the atomic bombs or an invasion.

We were not taught the details of exactly how determined the Japanese leadership was to force an invasion.

 

What go on after that admission?

 

Well, We did, they caved, the world is better off. Again bloody good show. As to the original poster's point--what moral person is going to argue that Hitler had more humanity than Truman? How bizarre.

As to whether the Japanese would or would not have surrendered, could not care any less. They behaved monstrously immoral. They deserved the nuke.

Not to mention, aren't these the same Japanese who were murdering and maiming Americans by bombing Pearl Harbor, all while telling the USG: No, no, no. There will be no war.

And as for using nukes: Hell, I'd use them on every Islamic capital in existence...and then tell the Muslims to grow up and enter the 21st century, or perish from the earth.

 

Let's not forget that Harry Truman and the U.S.military, are to this day, the only country in the world to have used Atomic weapons in war.

 

Nuked 'em good, and I'm glad they did.

 

Yes, Hitler, Stalin and Mao were enemies of humanity. Unique nihilist monsters. Compared to them Truman was a sweet prince.

I have been researching Islam. Almost all Muslims reject radical Islam whenever they get the chance.

The US revived a comatose radical Islam when it effectively overthrew the Shah of Iran. We compounded that error by intervening to remove Saddam.
The entrenched corrupt bipartisan ruling political class does not possess the competence to conduct a rational foreign policy.
We need to stop sending troops to police the world, and concentrate on healing our own country.

 

That only proves Hitler's scientists were stupid and ill-informed.

Why would they inform Hoover?

He stopped being President in 1933. The Manhattan Project didn't start until 1939.

 

we got Einstein from Germany, Germany wanted a working nuke, we just got lucky, as I think Hitler would of been like a Trump, punished everyone for turning on him, as Hitler only cared about Hitler - Hitler lacked empathy and had a very fragile ego - Hitler needed more checks and balances from the rest of Government

 

Well at least you dont like hitler so we can agree on that

 

The US did not overthrow the Shah. It installed him as a puppet after a CIA coup to overthrow the democratically elected government of Iran which was threatening to nationalize the nations oil reserves.

The Shah was a brutal US backed dictator who kept a boot on the throat of Iran's oil reserves to serve western corporations such as BP until overthrown in the 1979 revolution.

 

Thanks Apacherat. But I guess your post confirms that there is still today zero evidence that Daniel Elsberg was acting for the Soviets in any capacity.

On useful idiots. There are very many on this forum (I do not include you btw) who speak drivel about all sorts of things and who repeat US propaganda as if it were the unvarnished truth told them by God.

But that is because they are genuine idiots who don't have the capacity to think critically and they wouldn't use that ability if they possessed it anyway. Elsberg was far too smart to be in this category and he had a crisis of confidence in what he was doing and changed his position. Maybe that was ultimately beneficial to the Soviets, but who cares. In the grand scheme of things he did what he felt was right and did so with a clear conscience. That others benefitted from it was and is incidental.

Take care,

 

As I mentioned in an answer to another poster, the Nazi's had a top secret programme hidden deep inside the Reich Post Office. This was a sealed project and known to very few that operated out of a special massive facility in the Hartz mountains. Igor Witokski's book Secrets of the Wunderwuffe is as good a place to start on this story as anywhere else. By far the best available evidence (I am told by a friend who has been studying this subject for decades and is a well known researcher in these circles) is only available in German language publications. I don't speak that lingo, although I can get by using Google translate for articles and papers etc., but not whole books.

Der Spiegel carried an article on 14 March 2005 titled The Third Reich: How Close was Hitler to the A Bomb, about the book by German historian Rainer Karlsch which will give you a taste (although the journo seeks to throw water on the subject, but one has to understand that this remains a very, very sensitive subject in Germany where, for example, access to that facilty in the hartz mountains is to this day zealously protected by the state and access stifled). But it is better to get the later books on the subject. Witowski's was published 2013 I think (although my friend tells me he didn't get everything right). The three tests the article discusses certainly did take place and those at Ohrdruf were about a weapon that was *not* an atom bomb but something else.

Also you might try to watch a copy of ZDF's documentary on the subject (HERE), although I believe the film has now been removed by Youtube. I have a copy but it's only in German language. You might also want to peruse the first part of THIS and ask why US authorities placed a 100 year secrecy classification on everything they learned about the Ohrdruf facility.

Lastly, my apologies the article I earlier referred to as a Time Magazine piece was actually a Harper's Magazine article. Here it is:

https://nonstopsystems.com/radio/pdf-hell/article-history-secrets.pdf

 

Lol...The only ones trying to whitewash hitler and the nazis are the right-wingers and their great orange hope.

 

Thank you, very interesting. Parts, it would seem, should be taken with about as much salt as are in the mines they always tend to store these secret documents in but they're still rollicking good tales and who knows?

 

Read the whole thread as I covered this briefly earlier.

 

On the contrary this confirms that it is you who are both. Because you haven't read the thread.

Ditto your below statement. Before posting again maybe you should try to get up to speed - although personally speaking I wouldn't count on you bothering to make the effort to be informed. It's so much easier to just blab, blab, blab isn't it.

 

Some of us work for a living, I got home at 1:15 AM. I'm going to bed soon, if you've got a point make it, if not adios!

 

Perhaps. But overall I think what we are discussing covers a subject matter that was so strange 70+ years ago it makes it hard to fathom in the terms of those days. I m not speaking of an atom bomb btw. But something else.

Also, I think we have to bear in ind that official government papers remain classified on this until 2045/6 - and may be reclassified in perpetuity anyway -- so the better researchers have to dig in less than fertile soil. Having said that they do dig. And German language publications are far richer in detail.

One author I know personally has translated almost 90 books by former Nazis into the English language and has good contacts and access to information from those areas. There are also German language forums where these subjects are debated, although not all the best writers/researchers participate in them.

Concerning the underground complex I mentioned previously - which the 495th fighter wing website confirmed that all tunnel entrances had been blocked by US sapper explosions - continue to give off powerful returns on a Geiger counter. Entry to the complex is strictly and forcefully forbidden even today and any attempts at entry, and there have been a few, result in the culprits having their collars felt very bloody quickly. Likewise at Ohdruf itself. You can even get close to it without having police swarming over you.

So you have to ask what is it from 75 years ago that the authorities are so concerned about?

 

Then don't post twaddle.