Hitler Wouldn’t Risk Doomsday, But The United States Did

You are mistaken

Royalists within Iran overthrew the elected government with US backing

But he was not a puppet in spite of what the soviets and islamic wackos claimed

 

No

Your side is doing it on this very thread

 

Ask and ye shall receive:

 

No less a luminary than

it's either Clive Cussler's summer home or where Jay Leno keeps his Ford Nucleon

 

1. The US helped overthrow the nationalist Mosaddegh regime and effectively installed the Shah.
2. The US enabled the removal of the Shah and effectively installed Khomeini.

Aren't you dazzled by the brilliance of US foreign policy elite strategists?

 

Unkowling by Ellsberg stealing and releasing secret documents to the New York Times (Pentagon Papers) made the Kremlin happy as commie clams could be.

Ellsberg isn't stupid and knew that the Vietnam War was nothing more than a USSR vs. USA proxy war of the Cold War. Just one battle that was fought during the Cold War. In the endgame the Soviets won that proxy war.

There were over seventy proxy wars fought during the Cold War...-> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_proxy_wars#Cold_War_proxy_wars

The Afghan-Soviet war was also a proxy war, we won that proxy war with help from a liberal Democrat, Congressman Charlie Wilson.
It wasn't Reagan who armed the Mujahideen but a liberal Congressman and the CIA.

Now if Charlie Wilson were have been Nancy Pelosi or John Kerry they would have been useful idiots of President Reagan. But Congressman Charlie Wilson was a liberal Democrat and an American patriot who knew who America's real enemy was. Charlie Wilson was a patriot and a real liberal not some radical leftist hiding behind the liberal label like we see today.

 

Shouldn't this be in the conspiracy section?

 

Look up Germany’s Uranium Society. Hitler certainly was trying to get the bomb

 

Prove your point or don't create twaddle threads.

 

That's true, the Shah was, in fact, something of an Enlightened Despot, but he was a despot nonetheless. He became a good deal more brutal and repressive than he had started out as over the course of time.

 

You might be right about the proxy war Apacherat.

And yet there is this strange fact about this. L Fletcher Prouty was the Chief of Special Operations for the Joint Chiefs of Staff during the JFK administration. He was the Chiefs liaison point man with the CIA for all those black operations during the Indochina war. He became disenchanted when JFK was assassinated and set about writing two books, The Secret Team and JFK: The CIA, Vietnam and the Plot to Assassinate John Kennedy. In one of those two, and its been decades since I read them so I can't actually remember which (but think it was The Secret Team) he revealed that immediately post WWII, the US collected all their war surplus weapons and bundled them into two consignments and shipped half to Korea and the other half to Vietnam. Given that he was deeply involved in the planning for US post WWII black operations it seems evident that the US saw two areas it intended to get deeply involved in; Korea and Vietnam and provided massive weapon caches for the preparation of that involvement.

By all means call me an old cynic, but my reading of these facts is based on Western policy ever since, providing weapons to chosen elements in theatres of war that the US quickly gets militarily involved in itself.

So maybe the US chose the wars they wanted to engage in for the sake of expanding their empire into areas of the world that European nations( the Brits, French and Dutch) had earlier dominated and the Soviets responded to that?

In fact, a reading of what was then available on the still confidential CFR War and Peace Studies Project 1939-45 that appeared in Shoup's Book Imperial Brains Trust, the US war aims was to come out of WWII in a completely dominant position and take over the British empire to become the new world hegemon. This was almost certainly done with the knowledge and assistance of the British ruling elite who pragmatically recognised early on that their day in the Sun was coming to an end and therefore agitated behind the scenes for America to take on what the Brits called "the White man's burden" (got to laugh aloud at that one).

Given this background we have to wonder why it was that both the US and America funded and assisted the Bolsheviks in Russia during the Revolution there. In fact, had America and Britain wanted to they could have snuffed the Red Menace out entirely during the battle for Moscow. But a decision was made ( by A British Army officer there as part of the Allied Expeditionary Force in Russia at the time) to stop and / or divert the weapon trains that were destined for Admiral Kolchak and the White Russians. Pulling those vitally needed weapon supplies quickly led to the defeat of the White Russians by the Bolsheviks ---- and the rest is history.

It's a confusing picture isn't it. But then we Brits have always been the experts at deviousness and masters of the so called "Dark Arts" of intelligence and strategy. We Brits had been refining and polishing these arts for many hundreds of years - how else could a tiny island nation with limited domestic resources and a relatively small population come to dominate the whole world so effectively?

As part of the close collaboration during WWII, we Brits taught you Yanks how to become the new dark wizards.

Choosing one's enemy and one's battlefield in advance is the very essence and core of these Dark Arts, I think.

Btw, I have an interesting personal story about the arming and training of the Mujahideen in Afghanistan during the Reagan / Thatcher administrations and the Soviet deployment there. At that time I was a director of a little known - "discrete" would be a better description - subsidiary of an internationally well known bank. We specialised in financing weapon exports. Lots of things went down. But it's a story for another day perhaps.

 

Typical American dullard response. You're far too lazy to read the whole thread but still determined to jump in with criticisms, but when I told you I had already covered the subject you wanted information about you bitched about being too busy at work and far too important and exceptional to read the whole thread but that I should just repeat what I said again.

I'm not yo bitch man. Carry your own water.

This exchange is done and you join a list of those to be ignored henceforward.

 

So ya got nuthin.....I thought so. Prove your point or go sit in the corner.

 

^ Most massive win ever.

 

1st Hitler never had enough u235 to blow his nose let alone make a nuke. The sub was headed for Japan. But thanks for the bizarre conspiracy claptrap.

Years and years ago a company called SPI made a simulation of Operation Olympic the invasion of Japan. It was based on the best available information in the mid 70's we stopped after us cazualtiez exceeded 1/4 of a million and Japanese were approaching 2 million.

 

Great. Hitler apologists. This board is going downhill fast.

 

This whole OP ignores a very important fact. Hitler may have not wanted the A-Bomb and the Japanese may have been ready to surrender. It doubt this, but I will go along for entertainment's sake. Only what we believed at the time is important. We believed Hitler wanted to use the A-bomb and we believed the Japan would never give up. That is the intelligence we were operating on at the time.

I had a brother who just returned from Europe and was on the way to Japan when the bombs were dropped. I also had an uncle and my wife had two uncles who would have been on the way to Japan. I am very happy they dropped the bombs. Harry Give Em Hell Truman had it right.

 

And so began the decades of the American empire that was predicated on wreaking death and destruction around the world in pursuit of power and wealth - with the latter ambition being the true underlying reason of America's elite for the cynically applying the former. And millions of Americans have bought the cunningly spun story of America the free, fair and democratic - and saviours of the world - and even believe it today despite all that is now available showing otherwise.

Never underestimate the psychological power of a well spun trope, I say. People trip over themselves to believe these lies because facing réalité and looking in the mirror is the awful alternative.

 

Allow me to stop you there. History ain't entertainment. It's history. You may find incinerating tens of thousands and men, women, children, grandmothers, grandfather and babies entertaining but I and others do not.

Nice try but nah! You conveniently forget that we Brits and you Yanks were reading all the Nazi and Japanese top secret radio traffic because we had broken their ciphers - and we knew exactly what their real position was.

My family were also involved in that war and my father was in the Japanese theatre too (as well as earlier being in the European theatre). That doesn't change the reality of what happened nor why.

We've covered this on this forum before - extensively so, in fact. Roosevelt knew that the Japanese planned to attack Pearl Harbour and he along with a handful of other VIPs choose to let it happen. He was desperate for them to attack Pearl as that would allow him to go to war unopposed domestically. Also back in 1937 he agitated the Poles and the French and we Brits to go to war against Hitler.

The basic take away truth is never to trust politicians and never allow oneself to be manipulated by national elites and they have their secret agendas operating and use and the citizens of their nations as necessary cannon fodder to achieve their aims.

 

If Japan didn't sneak attack us, we wouldn't have been forced to bomb them. Quite simple really. Statistically and financially, the bombs saved lives. Well documented. An extended ground war would have been 100X more horrible than the results of the bombs. Should we have waited around to take the word of people who were using Kamikaze tactics? The value they put on human life wasn't high folks. Its like trying to claim if we would only speak with Jihadists, maybe we could understand them and come to an arrangement and end the war. Ya, sure. Just talk Japan ONLY wanted to speak until we SHOWED them that they didn't have an option. Either surrender or die. THATs how you speak to those who can't be reasoned with.

Remember, Japan started it all.

 

Get a life. I was pointing out that I disagreed with the premise, but was going along with it for discussion sake. One of my sons recently visited Dachau and I could hardly look at the pictures. The horrors of that place cannot be imagined.

And we believed the Germans and Japanese wanted the bomb and that the Japanese would fight to the death. You only have to look at what happened on Okinawa to understand that. They fought to the death and there were Japanese soldiers not surrendering for decades after the war was over. There were women, children and old people jumping off a cliff because they could not stand the thought of the US winning. I visited that cliff in the early 1960s. It is a landmark.

 

Well yeah, the shah had his secret police rounding up dissidents

So did South Korea for many years after the Korean War

Like the Koreans I think the iranian kingdom would have evolved into something better

But not under crazy mullahs living in the 12th Century

 

Not knowing our history is one reason why foreigners should keep their nose out of our debates

 

Wakey wakey!

This was the theme Billy Cotton Jnr used in the Sixties for his Sunday morning Band Show. It remains a pretty good catch phrase today for those who only know what they've been told about WWII by establishment historians and captured media journalists etc., who endlessly promote the victor's tropes rather than undertake a detailed, objective and independent study themselves.

But if you wish to remain asleep, that's your choice.

 

Well when people are trying to kill your ass for the crime of trying to boot strap your country into the 20th century, there aren't a lot of great options.