HITLER'S PEACE PLAN REJECTED

Discussion in 'History and Culture' started by Grau, Dec 2, 2017.

  1. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    On 10 May 1941, Rudolph Hess flew to Britain carrying a detailed Peace Plan with Hitler's blessing which Churchill rejected out of hand.
    In the Plan, Germany agreed to withdraw from all of Western Europe, Yugoslavia, Greece etc in exchange for neutrality with England & the U.S. so that Germany could focus its war efforts on just the USSR.
    While much documentation of Hess's remains classified or was destroyed, "...
    Historian Peter Padfield has uncovered evidence he says shows Hess, the deputy Fuhrer, brought with him from Hitler a detailed peace treaty".
    This recent evidence disproves the canard that "Hitler wanted to conquer the world".

    Opinions

    "Nazis ‘offered to leave western Europe in exchange for free hand to attack USSR"

    http://www.historyextra.com/news/se...estern-europe-exchange-free-hand-attack-ussr’
     
  2. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    For additional information on this topic, please see:



    "Document Suggests Hitler Knew of Hess' British Flight Plans"

    http://www.spiegel.de/international...ew-of-hess-british-flight-plans-a-765607.html

    EXCERPT "But his air mission was a failure from the start. When he heard about the unexpected visitor from Germany, then-British Prime Minister Winston Churchill, who at the time was giving a dinner party at his weekend house near Oxford, was not even willing to postpone a planned film screening, saying: "Well, Hess or no Hess, I'm going to see the Marx Brothers." Why make peace with an aggressor who was determined to subjugate Europe? Hess was taken into custody."CONTINUED


    "Hitler didn't want world war"
    http://www.redicecreations.com/specialreports/hitlernowar.html


    "The Inside Story of the Hess Flight"
    http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v03/v03p291_Anon.html
     
  3. Fenton Lum

    Fenton Lum Banned

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    Pretty much what we're doing with North Korea now.
     
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  4. yiostheoy

    yiostheoy Well-Known Member

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    Hitler had no credibility at that point anymore.

    After the Chamberlain fiasco the Brit's knew they had to destroy Adolf or be destroyed by him.

    They were right.

    In Adolf's second book (unpublished) he talks about the final conquest of England and America.
     
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  5. yiostheoy

    yiostheoy Well-Known Member

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    And Iran.

    Sanctions do not work.
     
  6. Fenton Lum

    Fenton Lum Banned

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    Sanctions do not give the US control over another nation, it's govt, and resources, which is what we're after, so yeah. That's why we're in all these endless wars of occupation while we economically cannibalize society at home to support them.
     
  7. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Cat on keyboard malfunction, Sorry
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2017
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  8. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    After researching this topic before posting this thread, I've concluded that Hitler was sincere.

    While the British were stranded at Dunkirk, Hitler's Generals were livid that he'd ordered them to "Stand Down".
    At that point the German Armed forces could easily have wiped out the 330,000 strong Allied army.

    Instead, Hitler waited 3 days while he allowed them to get safely away.


    "Hitler didn't want world war"
    http://www.redicecreations.com/specialreports/hitlernowar.html

    EXCERPT "Hitler didn't want a world war, and had no stomach for fighting England, according to Pulitzer Prize winning journalist Louis Kilzer, author of "Churchill's Deception" (Simon & Schuster, 1994).

    Hitler believed the future of Western civilization depended on the cooperation of Germany and her Aryan cousins: England and the United States. His territorial demands were limited to conquering Communist Russia, which he regarded as a proxy for Jewish world ambitions. He was determined to avoid fighting a war on two fronts.

    The "miracle at Dunkirk" was in fact an extraordinary peace overture to England. We don't normally associate Hitler with such magnanimity.

    In May 1940, the British were on the verge of defeat. The English army was trapped at Dunkirk. Rather than take them prisoner, Hitler halted his generals for three days allowing 330,000 men to escape.

    "The blood of every single Englishman is too valuable to shed," Hitler said. "Our two people belong together racially and traditionally. That is and always has been my aim, even if our generals can't grasp it." (Kilzer, p.213)

    Rudolph Hess, the Deputy Leader of Nazi Germany, was in contact with the Cliveden group and flew to England May 10, 1941 to negotiate peace. According to Kilzer, Hess had Hitler's complete blessings. CONTINUED
     
  9. yiostheoy

    yiostheoy Well-Known Member

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    Adolf had no credibility so it is not possible to conclude he was sincere.

    Plus his second book rules out any and all sincerity.
     
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  10. yiostheoy

    yiostheoy Well-Known Member

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    Sanctions are presumed to get the foreign government to acquiesce to certain terms, such as in N.Korea's case to stop missile launches, or in Iran's case to stop nuclear weapons development.

    The sanctions never work.
     
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  11. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Hitler's second book was written in 1928 but in October of 1933 he appealed to the Allies with a 6 Point Peace Plan which they rejected.

    Based on what I've read, his views on race etc continued to change to the point of awarding medals to Jewish WW1 Veterans(1) and including non German Europeans & non European Slavs, Blacks, Muslims, Jews, Poles etc to serve in Germany's military(2)

    Secondly, why did he spare the Allied armies at Dunkirk if his goal was to conquer the world etc?

    Finally, Hess's plane, a ME-110 was unarmed & escorted by the RAF into Scotland, not shot down. Hess had corresponded with a Lord Hamilton prior to his mission but Churchill refused to meet with him(3) and documents related to the incident remained sealed.

    There were earlier peace negotiations between the British & Germans but Churchill ordered them stopped as soon as he became P.M.....again, why?





    (1) "When Hitler Honored Jewish Soldiers"

    https://www.haaretz.com/jewish/features/.premium-1.602868

    EXCERPT "The Nazi regime conferred honors on many of the 100,000 Jews who fought in the German army in the Great War, even on some who had already escaped to Palestine."CONTINUED


    (2)"Adolf Hitler’s Armed Forces: A Triumph for Diversity?"
    https://www.inconvenienthistory.com/1/3/3102


    (3) "Document Suggests Hitler Knew of Hess' British Flight Plans"

    http://www.spiegel.de/international...ew-of-hess-british-flight-plans-a-765607.html

    EXCERPT "But his air mission was a failure from the start. When he heard about the unexpected visitor from Germany, then-British Prime Minister Winston Churchill, who at the time was giving a dinner party at his weekend house near Oxford, was not even willing to postpone a planned film screening, saying: "Well, Hess or no Hess, I'm going to see the Marx Brothers." Why make peace with an aggressor who was determined to subjugate Europe? Hess was taken into custody."CONTINUED
     
  12. yiostheoy

    yiostheoy Well-Known Member

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    Dunkirk has nothing to do with Adolf's plans to conquer the world.
     
  13. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    After doing more research on this curious topic, I'm afraid that the canard that "Hitler wanted to conquer the world." was & remains simplistic Allied propaganda as Hitler began making peace proposals as early as 1933, the beginning of his political career.
    What better way to start conquering the world than destroying the Allied armies at Dunkirk which Hitler refused to do.

    If Hitler wanted to conquer the world, he wouldn't have repeatedly offered to withdraw to Germany's pre WW1 borders, scattered leaflets of his Peace speech over England etc etc:

    "What the World Rejected: Hitler’s Peace Offers 1933–1940"

    https://www.amazon.com/What-World-Rejected-Hitlers-1933-1940-ebook/dp/B00M5K8OEM

    EXCERPT " Written by Germany’s foremost diplomatic historian of the early twentieth century, this work maps out all the numerous times that Adolf Hitler made unconditional offers of peace to all the nations of Europe—and how the major anti-German belligerents, France and Britain, turned down these offers each and every time.

    The author lists all of Hitler’s offers in detail, complete with quotes, starting with his first offer of May 17, 1933, his second offer of December 18, 1933, his third offer of May 21, 1935, his fourth offer of March 31, 1936, his fifth offer of September 30, 1938, his sixth offer of December 6, 1938, his seventh offer of late 1939 to Poland to settle the Danzig Corridor issue peacefully, and finally, his offer of world peace on October 6, 1939, just over a month after Britain and France had declared war on Germany for invading Poland on September 1 (but not on the Soviet Union, which also invaded Poland on September 17).

    This edition benefits from four new sections which did not appear in the original publication. These are:

    - The full text of Hitler’s “Appeal for Peace and Sanity” speech, made before the Reichstag on July 19, 1940, following the fall of France. In that speech, Hitler once again offered unconditional peace to Britain. This speech was printed in English and dropped by the tens of thousands from German aircraft over Britain.

    Although nearly half the British cabinet wanted to take up his offer, Churchill’s warmongering put an end to this final offer of peace;"CONTINUED
     
  14. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    Sure, it was a load of garbage. Hitler and the Nazi Party were simply not to be trusted.

    Let's examine this in a timeline, shall we?

    1 September 1939, Germany invades Poland
    10 July 1940, the Battle of Britain begins
    31 October 1940, the Battle of Britain ends
    22 June, Operation Barbarossa begins

    24 May 1941, Rudolph Hess crashes in Scotland.

    So let us see if this makes sense. A year and a half after throwing away the Munich Agreement, Hitler invades anyways. And by this time the Death Camps are in full operation. Germany had taken staggering losses in a 3.5 month long air battle, and come out very much the looser. Then less than a month before invading the Soviet Union (and violating yet another peace agreement), the Brits were supposed to trust them and stop fighting?

    Yea, not hardly. That is like a wife going back to her husband after he had badly beaten her on 2 previous occasions, because he said he would never do it again.

    It only proves that Socialists will say and do anything, if they think it will get them closer to their goals. And any agreements they make do not apply to them.

    I do not care if Hitler actually ordered his troops to pull out of France and Western Europe, the simple existance of his murder camps and his treatment of conquered people demands that he be destroyed.
     
  15. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    Oh bullocks.

    Like Japan with the US in December 1941, the moment that German Troops crossed into Poland, the favor of any anti-war movement in the UK died. Der Paper Hangar had been making peace proposal (demands) for years, and by 1939 England and the rest of Europe had grown tired of them and simply refused to deal with him any more. Every time he would threaten war unless he was given more territory, and there was simply no more left to give. Germany had already reclaimed almost all of their Pre-WWI lands, and anything else was unthinkable.

    BTW< the term "Appeasement" was actually the word used by Chamberlain himself when discussing the discussions prior to war breaking out. And it was hardly popular, the Labor Party, the Liberal Party, and the Conservative Part all opposed the idea of appeasement by 1938. Chamberlain was using censorship and control of the media to make it appear more popular than it was.
     
  16. yiostheoy

    yiostheoy Well-Known Member

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    You don't get the part about Adolf having NO credibility anymore.
     
  17. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Apparently, it's going to take another 70 years for many people to look objectively at WW2, the events leading up to it & view its players realistically.

    I lived, studied & worked in Germany in the mid 1970s & had the opportunity to talk, at length, with countless Germans who survived and WW1, the Weimar years, WW2 & the murderous post War plunder, rape & Eisenhower's death camps(1)

    Neither Germany nor any other country survive under the draconian, vengeful, unrealistic terms of the Treaty of Versailles & the post WW1 plunder, Starvation Blockade (1919) & criminal seizures by the Allied Powers.
    So basing trust on adhering to a suicidal & unjust dictate is flawed

    RE: Hitler's Peace Plan delivered by Hess
    You have no idea what it contained as it remains classified. It's contents were to be revealed in 2017 but the British decided to keep them classified for another 20 years.

    Why?

    Germany's leadership began making peace offers as early as 1933 but all of them were rejected out of hand:

    "What the World Rejected"

    Hitler’s Peace Offers, 1933- 1939

    http://ihr.org/other/what-the-world-rejected.html

    EXCERPT "Shortly afterwards, however, on December 18, 1933, he came forward with a new proposal for the improvement of international relations. This proposal included the following six points:

    “1. Germany receives full equality of rights.

    2. The fully armed states undertake among themselves not to increase their armaments beyond their present level.

    3. Germany adheres to this agreement, freely undertaking to make only so much actual moderate use of the equality of rights granted to her as will not represent a threat to the security of any other European power.

    4. All states recognize certain obligations in regard to conducting war on humane principles, or not to use certain weapons against the civilian population.

    5. All states accept a uniform general supervision that will monitor and ensure the observance of these obligations.

    6. The European nations guarantee one another the unconditional maintenance of peace by the conclusion of non- aggression pacts, to be renewed after ten years.”

    An exchange of notes, which began with this and continued for years, finally came to a sudden end with an unequivocal “no” from France. This “no” was moreover accompanied by tremendous increases in the armed forces of France, Britain, and Russia.CONTINUED

    Why did the Allies reject this and the following 7 appeals for a peaceful resolution of differences?

    No one has answered why Hitler deliberately allowed the 330,000 strong Allied armies to escape at Dunkirk if he really wanted to "conquer the world"


    RE:
    If "murder camps" were such a compelling reason to destroy Germany, why then didn't the Western Allies attack the USSR whose far more malevolent & deadlier "murder camps" & oppression of conquered people was prolific long before Hitler's?

    Additionally, why didn't the Western Allies declare war on the Soviets when THEY invaded Poland etc.



    (1)"GERMAN HOLOCAUST GERMAN GENOCIDE: 9-15 Million Germans Killed 1945 – 1953 Post WW2 “The Morgenthau Plan” EISENHOWER’S DEATH CAMPS “A Forgotten Genocide”

    http://truedemocracyparty.net/2014/...eisenhowers-death-camps-a-forgotten-genocide/
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2017
  18. APACHERAT

    APACHERAT Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Hitler always looked towards the east not the west.

    Germany didn't declare war on France and England but France and England declared war on Germany after Germany invaded Poland and the Soviet Union soon joined Germany by invading Poland on Sept. 17th 1939 then Stalin invaded Finland on Nov. 30th 1939.

    Hitlers biggest mistake was signing the Tripartite Pact in 1936 with Italy and Imperial Japan. When Japan attacked America on Dec. 7th, 1941 Hitler was obligated to declare war against the United States. America had no treaty with England or France before Dec. 7th, 1941.

    France has always been in bed with Russia going back to the 1800's and even when Charles De Gaulle was President, if President Truman didn't support France reoccupying French Indochina after WW ll, De Gaull threatened to get back in bed with Stalin. France and Russia were allies and had treaties with each other that led to the First World War. (The stupidest war ever fought in modern times)

    After WW ll all German field grade officers and field marshals were debriefed by American and Britsh intelligence officers. One question that was asked was why do you think Germany lost the war ?

    The most common response was that;
    A corporal was running the war.
    Germany didn't fully mobilized and went to fighting a "total war" until 19434 after it was to late and the war was already lost.

    Where as the USSR, UK and the USA fought total war on day one.

    Side note:
    (America has only fought two wars as total war in its history, "The War Between the States" aka "The Great Rebellion" aka the "American Civil War" and the "Second World War.")

    Hitler despised internationalist socialism and Joseph Stalin and Comrade Stalin knew it. Either Stalin had to destrroy Hitler or Hitler was going to destroy Stalin.

    It was no secret that Hitler had his eyes on eastern Europe. All you have to do was to read Mein Kampf.

    Hitler only allowed one interview to an English speaking journalist before WW ll. An excerpt of the interview is on the internet but the full interview can only be viewed by going to a well established public or private library or research library. It's all there what Hitler intentions were. I've read the full interview twenty or so years ago.

    Excerpt:
    Hitlers views on America, the American people and FDR...?

    Hitler didn't like FDR but even though Hitler looked upon America already becoming a mongolized nation, he liked Americans in general, never had eyes on America, had family members who had already migrated to America and Hitler owned a cattle ranch in Colorado before the war.

     
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  19. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    Actually, he was not obligated to declare war. The Tripartite Pact only obligated it's members to declare war if it is attacked, not if the other member is the aggressive party. Japan used that as a reason to not declare war against the USSR, and Germany could have done the same thing after Japan attacked the US.

    And Mussolini followed similar reasoning. Even though Germany had been at war with the UK and France since 1939, he did not declare war until June 1940, because he was sure he could take control of the French and UK colonies in North Africa and the Middle East. However, he followed the German lead, and declared war on the US the same day Germany did.
     
  20. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Thanks for an insightful, excellent & very informative Post.

    You're right about Germany's apparent reluctance to fight a "total war" or else they would have wiped out the Allied armies at Dunkirk rather than allowing them to escape. That's why I feel that his multiple peace overtures toward the English were genuine as late as Hess's mission to Scotland to meet with Lord Hamilton & then Churchill.

    I didn't know about the Colorado ranch.
     
  21. APACHERAT

    APACHERAT Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    So why would Hitler declare war upon the United States ?

    What was he thinking ?

    What was his strategy ?

    We didn't have much of an army on Dec. 7th and the Army Air Corps was just that, air corps size.

    But we had a navy of considerable size.
     
  22. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Are you aware of the Greer Incident in 1939 in which a US destroyer fired on a German ship?
    Also, prior to Germany's declaration of war, Roosevelt ordered supposedly neutral US ships to "Shoot on sight" any German ship (Sept 11 1941)


    "Sept. 1941 — Roosevelt orders Navy to shoot on sight"
    http://ww2cartoons.org/sept-1941-roosevelt-orders-navy-to-shoot-on-sight/

    EXCERPT "On September 11, 1941 (9/11!), President Roosevelt issued an order to the U.S. Navy to shoot German or Italian warships in the west Atlantic on sight.

    Roosevelt’s shoot on sight order was interpreted as an act of aggression by Germany, and was the major action sited in the Germany’s Declaration of War with the U.S issued three months later, three days after Japan’s attack on Pearl Harbor."CONTINUED



    USS Greer (DD-145)
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Greer_(DD-145)

    EXCERPT "USS Greer (DD–145) was a Wickes-class destroyer in the United States Navy, the first ship named for Rear Admiral James A. Greer (1833–1904). In what became known as the "Greer incident," she became the first US Navy ship to fire on a German ship, three months before the United States officially entered World War II. The incident led President Franklin D. Roosevelt to issue what became known as his "shoot-on-sight" order."CONTINUED
     
  23. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I hope the following will help to answer at least your first question.



    "Hitler didn't want world war"
    http://www.redicecreations.com/specialreports/hitlernowar.html
    EXCERPT "Hitler didn't want a world war, and had no stomach for fighting England, according to Pulitzer Prize winning journalist Louis Kilzer, author of "Churchill's Deception" (Simon & Schuster, 1994).

    Hitler believed the future of Western civilization depended on the cooperation of Germany and her Aryan cousins: England and the United States. His territorial demands were limited to conquering Communist Russia, which he regarded as a proxy for Jewish world ambitions. He was determined to avoid fighting a war on two fronts.

    The "miracle at Dunkirk" was in fact an extraordinary peace overture to England. We don't normally associate Hitler with such magnanimity.

    In May 1940, the British were on the verge of defeat. The English army was trapped at Dunkirk. Rather than take them prisoner, Hitler halted his generals for three days allowing 330,000 men to escape.

    "The blood of every single Englishman is too valuable to shed," Hitler said. "Our two people belong together racially and traditionally. That is and always has been my aim, even if our generals can't grasp it." (Kilzer, p.213)

    Rudolph Hess, the Deputy Leader of Nazi Germany, was in contact with the Cliveden group and flew to England May 10, 1941 to negotiate peace. According to Kilzer, Hess had Hitler's complete blessings. CONTINUED

    As always, I recommend that you read the whole article. I've already ordered the book "Churchill's Deceptions"
     
  24. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    The Lend-Lease Act was shipping large amounts of materials to the Soviets and England. But at that time none of them were "war materials" (bombs, tanks, guns, etc) but Logistical Equipment (trucks, cargo planes, train engines), he had no right to stop their shipment.

    By entering the war with the US as an enemy combatant, he was then allowed to start conducting open submarine warfare to try and stop these shipments.
     
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  25. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    OK, now here is the rest of the story.

    The USS Greer (DD-145) did indeed fire upon a German Submarine (U-652), after the submarine fired upon it. The submarine had been detected and was being trailed by the Greer. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with that, even to this day the various navies of the world routinely search for and track the submarines of other navies. But the U-652 was depthcharged shortly before this time by UK aircraft, and many believe that the Captain made the mistake of believing that the Greer had launched the charges, so fired in response.

    This and the earlier SS Robin Moor was the reason for the shoot order.

    The SS Robin Moor was a US flagged vessel, traveling from New York to Mozambique with cargo, 9 officers, 29 crew, and 8 passengers. On 21 May 1941 the ship was stopped 750 miles west of Sierra Leone by the U-69. The crew was forbidden from using the radio, and all passengers and crew were ordered to man the lifeboats. Once this was done the ship was sunk. The Captain of the submarine promised to radio for rescue, but he never did. After 18 days at sea, one of the lifeboats with the Captain and 10 others was discovered off the coast of Brazil.

    The sinking of the SS Robin Moor, then the firing upon the USS Greer was the reason for that order in September.

    Now, you know the rest of the story.
     

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