HITLER'S PEACE PLAN REJECTED

Discussion in 'History and Culture' started by Grau, Dec 2, 2017.

  1. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No, "peace loving" is not the first thing that comes to mind when one thinks of Hitler. But I try to think past the hyper-demonized villain to the complex human being who went from painter, to war hero(WW1) to junkie to a hyperbolic, international epithet.
    I do however blame the West for the draconian Treaty of Versailles, post WW1 Starvation Blockade(1), seizure of the Ruhr etc. that I think made a 2nd World War inevitable.
    Additionally, about 25% of Germany's entire population had been torn away to create Czechoslovakia etc

    Since Hitler had experienced the horrors of war, & been wounded (via gas), I think that his peace overtures were genuine. He simply wanted a way out of the unjust Treaty of Versailles & was alarmed by the Franco Soviet Pact of 1935.
    Additionally, historian Peter Padfield makes a pretty compelling case(2) that Hitler honestly wanted peace with Britain but Churchill, confident that he could drag the US into the war chose to snub those overtures.



    (1) "The Starving of Germany in 1919"
    https://beyondthirtynine.com/the-starving-of-germany-in-1919/

    EXCERPT "The reason for the food blockade to be kept in place after the end of the hostilities was aimed at forcing Germany to sign the Versailles Treaty without any change on the strict conditions they were imposing. Today no one remembers it because it was kept secret and there were no leaks to the western press while 900,000 German men, women and children died because of the British naval blockade. Even today only a few non-Germans know the truth and American and British historians, seems to have brushed off this most appalling crime as a footnote in history."CONTINUED


    (2)"Nazis ‘offered to leave western Europe in exchange for free hand to attack USSR"
    http://www.historyextra.com/news/se...estern-europe-exchange-free-hand-attack-ussr’


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/history/...in-exchange-for-free-hand-to-attack-USSR.html
    EXCERPT "A new book claims to have solved the riddle of the flight to Britain in 1941 of Rudolph Hess, Adolf Hitler’s deputy. Historian Peter Padfield has uncovered evidence he says shows Hess, the deputy Fuhrer, brought with him from Hitler a detailed peace treaty, under which the Nazis would withdraw from western Europe in exchange for British neutrality over the imminent attack on Russia. The episode remains, more than 70 years on, shrouded in mystery."CONTINUED
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2017
  2. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The more I read about the so called Nuremberg Trials, the more repulsive they seem.


    A more detailed account of historian Peter Padfield's examination of Hess's mission is at:
    "Nazis ‘offered to leave western Europe in exchange for free hand to attack USSR"
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/history/...in-exchange-for-free-hand-to-attack-USSR.html
     
  3. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I make these claims.
    Hitler committed evil. How else can one view his invasion forces and the destruction caused by them.

    Hitler lacked experience. But he rounded up skilled Germans and managed to improve things for Germany.
    The Treaty signed at the end of WW1 caused havoc. It led to an incredible inflation and suffering the German people did not believe they deserved. The effort to choke Germany to death was the wrong move to make.

    America sees Germany one way in general yet the real Germany was different. Some Germans wanted more territory and conquered various countries. This was completely wrong. The hostility towards the Jews and others was extremely evil. i see that evil in the same light as conquering France.

    I do not propose we elevate Hitler to sainthood merely because he used virtually dictatorial force to improve his nations economy and life for Germans.

    I was there in Germany from Oct 1962 to the end of January 1964. I visited much of then West Germany and included Berlin. I spent almost a month in Berlin so got much more out of the visit than normal visitors can get. I got very close to a German family and talked to them about their life behind the Iron Curtain. Yes, a person might or might not learn from such a person. My fiancees father was more than a German, he had a business in East Germany and lost it to Communism. He was the towns mayor. He had many contacts in West Berlin which helped him and his wife and daughter escape. Berlin was kind to them in getting him into a dry cleaning business, started by his own capital and borrowed Deutsche marks. I could have spent a month in Berlin only taking in the sights. But found out how they had lived during WW2.

    I only want the facts about Hitler represented. i feel the Rise and Fall of the Third Reich is very intensely investigated. Shirer took the time to seek information and document it and seek out the Nazis as well.

    So, was Hess sent to England. Again, Shirer investigated this and used Nazi sources. Before i call him wrong, i would need to evaluate other sources and see how one or more displaces Shirer. Shirer's book in my view is accurate and fair. I shall however keep an open mind. one more thing. i am not so interested in his regime that I want to either think of Hitler as maligned by history or exonerated. i do not wish to add fuel to those wanting him to be excused.

    Also, I believe that William Shirer did a marvelous job investigating his subject matter. Shirer was a correspondent and historian working in Berlin prior to the war and spent 5 years researching the Nazi records. They were meticulous record keepers. This helped him greatly tell an accurate story.

    Those disputing his records have a hill to climb. I am not that much of a scholar on this topic. It did help me to live in Germany for over a year and since I am very curious, to ask Germans themselves. His book is used globally as the definitive work. So who am I to challenge Mr. Shirer?
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2017
  4. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I may be the only poster who visited Nuremberg and has photos of my visit there. I admit that i did not see most of the city. I drove from Schweinfurt to the city with Army pals and the huge stadium where Hitler talked was overwhelming to the senses. To walk where Adolph walked was impressive. I did not see the actual building where the trial was held. But just to be there was amazing. A day trip never gives one time to see all they wanted to see. I wanted to see other cities and did so.

    I might be the sole poster that camped in the Black Forest and was rudely awakened by a wild boar. The boar caused me to sleep the rest of the night on the roof of my Mercedes. Don't be fooled by the car name. it was a simple 4 dr car that looked much like it was from the 1930's though it was sold new in the 1950's.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2017
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  5. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Great looking car & impressive memories! It's probably still running.

    I hope you ate at one of the restaurants surrounding the cathedral in Nuremberg.

    The last of 3 times I was in Germany was when I lived, worked & studied at Freiburg i.Br.. I had an apartment from which I could see the Black Forest, had no car & bicycled throughout S. Germany, the Foothills of the Alps, Alsace Lorraine & also to Nuremberg. Studied some at the local university (Albert-Ludwigs Universitat), worked with a former Waffen SS officer who was a stone mason & with whom I drank lots of beer secretly paid for by him. He told me at the time that the boss provided free beer from lunchtime on.
    He was captured by the Russians who broke all of his fingers because he could play the violin, didn't get home until 1949, his entire family was killed when the Allies bombed the city and so was the fate of countless Germans I came to know well .
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2017
  6. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    My Mercedes was a dark blue or black. Been many years and the post had the car picked up and destroyed. I left it with the engine having tossed a rod.

    Of the 4 of us, I was the only one with money. I did not take the guys to fancy restaurants. One who went with me came from Hungary and had been one of the student Freedom fighters. His story of how he escaped Hungary was quite interesting. His stint in the Army was to become an American citizen. I was close to Stuttgart when the Boar caused me to put the sleeping bag on the roof and get in. They were laughing the next am when telling me of the boar.

    The furthest South i got was at Stuttgart.

    At Amsterdam, I drank beer with one of the German fighter plane pilots who then was flying commercial for Dutch KLM. His only comment about the war was when he learned I was based at Schweinfurt and he explained he flew fighters out of the airfield I later worked at for my final several months there. People forget that not every German was rabid to be in war. The pair of Dutch honeys sitting with us did not like the German pilot.
     

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