Hong Kong! Remember Tiananmen Square!

Discussion in 'Asia' started by Starjet, Jul 29, 2019.

  1. Starjet

    Starjet Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    '...the '89 Democracy Movement. The protests started on 15 April and were forcibly suppressed on 4 June when the government declared martial law and sent the military to occupy central parts of Beijing.'--https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1989_Tiananmen_Square_protests

    And it is about to happen again...in Hong Kong

    https://www.foxnews.com/world/hong-...alls-on-forceful-action-to-end-ongoing-unrest.

    One of the freest, if not the freest, places on Earth, ever, is about to be murdered. And once again, America and the West will wag their tongues, wiggle their fingers, wring their hands, and watch liberty be crushed by tanks and machine guns.

    What ought to be done by the West? The isolation of China, a trade embargo and blockade, a UN condemnation and expulsion, and war if necessary. What will be done? Nothing.

    It will be horrendous, but it will happen.
     
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  2. Sallyally

    Sallyally Well-Known Member Donor

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    I’m just waiting for the reclaiming by China, of Taiwan. Same thing.
    A prosperous asset just waiting to be brought back into China’s fold.
     
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  3. drluggit

    drluggit Well-Known Member

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    I think, unfortunately, that you are correct here. There are simply too many in this country who profit off of the relationship with China, and they won't easily give that profit up for the sake of consumers they don't service. Most in the US won't stand up because they have almost zero affinity towards Hong Kong.

    If China rolls in and implements martial law in Hong Kong, the world will stand by, shrug, much like it did when the Russians rolled into Georgia, and the Ukraine, and the progressive marxists will applaud, noting that the people of Hong Kong will now be a wonderful addition to the peace and grace of China....
     
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  4. Starjet

    Starjet Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Makes one momentarily think, “Fk the world! I’d rather jrk of_f.”
     
  5. Thedimon

    Thedimon Well-Known Member

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    That about sums it up.
     
  6. Thedimon

    Thedimon Well-Known Member

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    Fighting China on its turf, or very close to it, is self defeating.
    So, military action can be ruled out.
    Economically isolating China is near damn impossible and will probably take decades to really bring it to its knees.

    So, while China cannot realistically threaten us here, there is nothing we can do to China at its homeland. In fact, our response to Russia can always be harsher because Russian economy is a joke, but response to China will always be measured.
     
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  7. Concord

    Concord Well-Known Member

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    I have a pretty unusual take on this matter, as I do on Iran.

    As with the Middle East, I think everyone is looking at the wrong nation as the real threat to American hegemony. In the Middle East it is Turkey, not Iran. In the Pacific it is Japan, not China.

    Why? Because China is on an inevitable path to devolution. The interests of the massive interior diverge too sharply from the interests of the wealthy coasts. Eventually, the elites of the coast are going to attempt to throw off the wealth redistribution being forced on them by the Communist Party. The ascendance of this coastal elite is going to take the form of democratic federalist movements up and down the Chinese coastline. This weakening of the Chinese state is going to greatly reduce both their ability to build military systems as well as their unified geopolitical will.
     
  8. Moi621

    Moi621 Well-Known Member Donor

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    China should have Tiananman Squared
    Hong Kong rioters last week.


    I am simply - anti rioting.
    Whether in Ferguson, Missouri or Hong Kong.


    Amplify a warning military action will be executed
    on any persons who do not disperse. The Riot Act.
    And back it up with lethal action.


    Moi :oldman:





    Canada-3.png
     
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  9. Sallyally

    Sallyally Well-Known Member Donor

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    How else are you supposed to effect change, if you don’t have a vote?
     
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  10. Starjet

    Starjet Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Now that would depend on your definition of rioting and protesting, wouldn’t it? And more; what the protest are for or against would be pertinent, yes?

    It’s obvious the citizens of Hong Kong want to be free and not enslaved by China. My point is simply to remind Hong Kong not to rely on the Western nation’s; they will turn their backs while liberty is butchered and the streets in Hong Kong will be as blood-filled as they were in Tiananmen Square
     
  11. drluggit

    drluggit Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure that many would agree with you. But the days when China didn't really have force projection is coming to a rapid end. And when it does, their ability to come to us comes with it.

    I think folks forget that part.
     
  12. Robert E Allen

    Robert E Allen Well-Known Member

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    America should stop it.
    China won't stop there..
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2019
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  13. Moi621

    Moi621 Well-Known Member Donor

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    Peacefully.
    Not via rioting.
     
  14. Moi621

    Moi621 Well-Known Member Donor

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    Not obvious at all.

    Hong Kong is China
    Get over it.

    Peaceful protests yes.
    Rioting, no.
    Ferguson, Missouri or Hong Kong.
    Violence should have a violent reply.
     
  15. Robert E Allen

    Robert E Allen Well-Known Member

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    The people of Hong Kong don't want to be controlled by communists.

    America should tell China No and if they won't accept no as an answer we should force that no down their throats.
     
  16. Moi621

    Moi621 Well-Known Member Donor

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    That is not :flagus: business.
    Hong Kong is China, get over it!
    :flagus: is in no position to force anything on China
    Not militarily
    Not economically.

    Oh to be so humbled.


    Inspired by events 119 years ago.
    China ain't gonna let that happen again.


    Moi :oldman:



    ChineseCanadian.jpg
     
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  17. Starjet

    Starjet Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    So, the Jews would have no recourse but to submit to the Nazis? That's a very superficial and very unprincipled stand that you are taking. When 'living" is outlawed, the living have the moral right to protest, and even revolt, if necessary.

    I agree that there is a riot going one, but it is not the protestors, its the Chinese authoritarians pissed off because Hong Kong won't bend to its will.

    BTW: When they come for Taiwan, will your answer still be the same? When they go after Japan? No recourse but to submit?

    These protestors, or rioters, as you call them, wish to remain and live free, and you tell them to "suck eggs". Not very nice.

    They will lose. China will destroy them. And there will be many murdered souls, and another bright light of liberty will be snuffed out. But that's alright. Order will have been restored--tyrannical order, but better than nothing. Right? Who needs liberty, when we can have peace and quiet?
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2019
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  18. Starjet

    Starjet Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The hardest thing of all: Showing the obvious to willingly blind.

    Hong Kong Is on the Frontlines of a Global Battle For Freedom--https://time.com/longform/hong-kong-protests/
    'We Are Entitled To Freedom': Hong Kong Protesters Forge On--https://www.npr.org/2019/06/30/7374...-on-handover-anniversary-to-continue-protests
    Hong Kong activists: We're protesting for our freedom from brutal Chinese authoritarianism--https://www.usatoday.com/story/opin...est-for-freedom-from-china-column/1512717001/

    There are many more, for those willing to see and think.

    Are you lonely and seeking attention, or this is really your honest conviction: Kill them. Kill them all. I want peace and quiet.
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2019
  19. jay runner

    jay runner Well-Known Member

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    Tongues, words, hot air and fingers mean little. If the action of a foreign power is to be changed, such as China isn't going to take it much longer from Hong Kong and you wish the Red Chinese would not crush the hell out of them and kill boatloads of them as a lesson, you've got to administer pain by hurting their trade or waging war on them.

    Who will put on a uniform and shoulder a rifle to save Hong Kong? Because words don't do anything.

    And if you're young it's not inconceivable that down the road a couple decades the Chinese will be here running your life.
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2019
  20. Moi621

    Moi621 Well-Known Member Donor

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    Oh the
    MY POSITION IS SO VERY WEAK
    I must fall back on paraphrasing or not analogous, analogies.
    TACTIC.


    Freedom. :salute:
    Liberty. :salute:
    Witness the fruits of "The Arab Spring".
    Not all peoples or cultures can withstand the
    responsibilities of . . . . .
    So they devolve into civil wars ala Libya & Iraq
    or receive the blessings of a military gov't in civilian clothes (Egypt)


    Hong Kong is China
    Get over it.
    What happens in China is not :flagus: business.


    Moi :oldman:




    Better YOU pay attention to the abuses of our very long land border neighbor
    :flagcanada: on their peoples.
     
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  21. Moi621

    Moi621 Well-Known Member Donor

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    I am 71 years old.
    Too many of my peers were wasted in the
    paraphrase
    ;)
    "Frontlines of a Global Battle Against Communist Aggression"
    in Vietnam.

    Witness the benefits to the people with the removal of Saddam or Qaddafi
    and how many others.
    Or the blessings to the people of trying to remove Assad.

    I don't see them. Do you?


    Liberty and FREEDOM does not fill empty bellies, or provide medical care.
    Or housing. Or infrastructure.
    But, :flagus: policy has proven it substitutes Liberty and Freedom for
    a working economy and middle class.
    What nation does not follow the above, except Egypt where the military poses as civilian.


    Support Non Intervention.
    Hong Kong is China
    Get Over It.
     
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  22. Starjet

    Starjet Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    LOL. Never has one been so wrong about so much in one simple statement: "Liberty and FREEDOM does not fill empty bellies, or provide medical care."
    Without freedom of thought, there is no creativity; without creativity, there is no life. Let reality be my proof: Hitler's Nazi Germany, Mao's Red China, Stalin's Soviet Union, Kim's North Korea, Castro's Cuba, and Maduro's Venezuela.

    As to the rest

    Unfortunately, most think like you, which is why, in Hong Kong, liberty will be slaughtered like a swine on the butcher's block, and left to bleed to death, and the West will provide moral cover via pragmaticism.

    BTW: I was a voluntary Marine during Vietnam, but was assigned stateside to care for A6A's. And was glad I saw no action. Still, all-in-all, it better to have the Red dead, then murdering and enslaving.

    Support Hong Kong's liberty. Be brave, be moral, and do the right thing.
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2019
  23. Starjet

    Starjet Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    China is moving in the wrong direction and is about to suffer the consequences for not following a simple moral premise: There is no economic freedom without political freedom.
    She will take Hong Kong and her wealth, and murder what made Hong Kong wealthy and desirable, the creative mind.
     
  24. Sallyally

    Sallyally Well-Known Member Donor

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    I don’t think peacefully worked, so they are trying something different.
     
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  25. Moi621

    Moi621 Well-Known Member Donor

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    Who is financing Hong Kong activist ?


    Similar to the Palestinian situation
    violence is just not going to work
    when facing an effective military.

    Didn't peacefully work for India?

    Hong Kong is China.
    Not our business.
    Even if China Tiananmen Square them.
    Some citizens are in a State of Riot.


     
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