Hong Kong! Remember Tiananmen Square!

Discussion in 'Asia' started by Starjet, Jul 29, 2019.

  1. Pycckia

    Pycckia Well-Known Member

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    How are the wealthy elite a threat to the CCP? How many divisions does Jack Ma command?


    Why should the wealthy elite upset the apple cart that made them wealthy?

    And by all means, tell me the future of China!
     
  2. s002wjh

    s002wjh Well-Known Member

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    then you should concentrate on Africa or Saudi first how many civilians had die in Saudi-yemen war. half the population in Saudi are 2nd class citizens.
     
  3. s002wjh

    s002wjh Well-Known Member

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    lol non-sense, the elite/rich in china are same as elite/rich in US, they have the $$$ and influence in the government. if you don't want capitalist, do you prefer socialism. what china did is take the capitalist from west but reject the political structure of west.
     
  4. Starjet

    Starjet Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Oh, I support a total condemnation and seperation with Saudi Arabia, and support any military action against them. For pure evil, the Saudis take a back seat to no one.
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2019
  5. Starjet

    Starjet Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Won’t work—a free economy requires free minds. As the Chinese are finding out, however so slowly
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2019
  6. s002wjh

    s002wjh Well-Known Member

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    consider they are 2nd largest economy in the world, I say it work well for them. people get this idea thinking democracy is tie to economy, but its not, you can be capitalist without free election.
     
  7. Starjet

    Starjet Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Only proves you get more out of slaves by being nice to them instead of whipping, starving, castrating, torturing, and murdering them. But when push comes to shove, and violent suppression of rebellion is needed, you can be sure the whips and instruments of torture and death are not stored too far away.

    BTW: GDP is a poor indicator of the wealth of a nation, more important is the wealth of its citizens. That indicator shows China in the bottom 50. --http://www.worldsrichestcountries.com/highest-net-worth-by-country.htmlhttp://www.worldsrichestcountries.com/highest-net-worth-by-country.html
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2019
  8. Concord

    Concord Well-Known Member

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    Hilarious. Do you know where the "how many divisions" quote came from? Look it up, and then look up Solidarity in Poland.

    To keep and expand their wealth, silly.

    Well, what we're going to see is democratic federalist movements appear up and down the coastline, but what's going to be happening is the wealthy elite are going to he struggling to stop the movement of their money into inland China. The central state will weaken, income inequality will explode, and foreign national will play a larger role in Chinese politics.
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2019
  9. Concord

    Concord Well-Known Member

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    Believe it or not, the implication of your argument is a socialist interpretation of history. Mine is not, I don't see classes as unified. Inland elites and Party leadership, for example, need that coastal wealth to flow inland.
     
  10. s002wjh

    s002wjh Well-Known Member

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    have no idea what you talking about, are you talking about west? well guess what trump is America first, he is not gonna care about china human right issue, in fact he is cozy up to Saudi.
     
  11. Starjet

    Starjet Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Your question indicates you know exactly of what I speak.
     
  12. s002wjh

    s002wjh Well-Known Member

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    i dont otherwise why would i put "? " if somehow you think democracy are link to no torturing and murder, that just laughable. one example phillippine drug war already kill over 5000 people, did they ever get a trial?
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2019
  13. Starjet

    Starjet Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Really? A clever deflect from the fact that China's a communist dictatorship, it's citizens are slaves, who, for a while, were allowed a little economic freedom. Soon some of those souls begin to think, liberty, and their whispers of political freedom started to reach the Communist Party's ears, and the Party started cracking down. As a result, China's economy has faltered and will continue to do so because it's built on a lie, that property and intellectual rights are sacred to the Communist State.

    Simply stated, Chinese slaves produced more because the state let them keep more under the pretense of respect for property rights. Now the slaves want more, they want to be free. Now the Party is showing its true color is not money green, but blood red. And that any thought of freedom is just an illusion to get the slaves to work harder.

    Get it? Got it? Good.
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2019
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  14. s002wjh

    s002wjh Well-Known Member

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    lol have you actually talk to chinese national in US or even visit china. i doubt it. guy like you without knowing anything about china or even visit or talk to chinese student here have such self righteous attitude just pure ignorance. i highly suggest talk to some chinese student here to understand how they feel about china. if china was that bad why would ex-pat from EU/US live in china. or at the minimum watch some neutral youtuber on china from ex-pat who live in china currently or before. remember The road to hell is paved with good intentions. dont judge others with self righteous attitude without even understanding about them

    here is one channel you can check, plenty more on youtube
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2019
  15. Starjet

    Starjet Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Hey. Tell it to the Chinese, I'm not one risking death and protesting in Hong Kong. I'm not the one building artificial islands to threaten shipping routes. I'm not the one demanding Google provide a search engine allowing government monitoring.
    And on, and on, and on. You may believe China's a worker's paradise, but I now of at least 60 million souls who would beg to defer, not to mention the Man who stood up to tanks.

    Remember this pick? I wonder if it's legal to view and share in China.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2019
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  16. s002wjh

    s002wjh Well-Known Member

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    no need i talk to chinese student here before long time ago, you are just another ignorance guy who think he know everything about china. so i suggest you go ask some chinese national in US, especially the young generation how they feel about china. does china have issues yes, culture revolution, great leap forward etc. even though there are millions chinese student in EU/aussies/US etc, ever wonder why there isn't a tiannmen square now . so go ask them and stop been a self righteous guy who didn't know anything about china except from main stream news. go do your research, go talk to those chinese in US university, its very simple to join a chinese student association in any US university and understand china from their perspective rather then been ignorant on china. your thinking of chinese will simply raise up and overthrow CCP are simply naive, again go talk to chinese national in university will change your mind.
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2019
  17. Starjet

    Starjet Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I had a Chinese supervisor around 2014. She would go back home to China every two years, and I would asked her, “Aren’t you worried you won’t be allowed back”? And she said, “No, that’s the old China, we are freer now.” To which I relied, laughingly, “You mean I can go to China to visit Beijing wearing a t-shirt saying ‘COMMUNISM SUCKS!’ She frowned, a bit sheepishly, “Oh no. Don’t do that”

    Enough said.


    BTW, my job brings me into contact with many Chinese students here in America and my sense from talking to them is that China is economically more freer, but the Party keeps close taps on dissent and dissenters, you need to bribe your way past reproduction laws, and Party favors still must be paid for.

    I think my understanding of China’s political and economical structure is sound enough for me to say at least this, COMMUNISM SUCKS!
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2019
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  18. s002wjh

    s002wjh Well-Known Member

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    its obvious the women is fine with china, otherwise she wont go back. and yes china does not have total freedom of speech or press, but thats not what most chinese wanted. what they want is good economy, jobs, nice car, house, good education, good live for them and their childrens etc. as bill clinton said "its the economy, economy, economy" so who are you to tell chinese what they should have or not. would it be better to have total freedom sure, but they are not gonna raise up like you said and overthrow the CCP then end up like syria. they want stability and economic progress, because they been poor for so long. if its really that bad there, there shouldn't be millions ex-pat living in china, many those ex-pat are from US/EU. you talk about democracy yet you dont value their opinions, isn't that just hypocrisy. btw if you wear "communism sucks or down with CCP etc in China" the trouble you get is from chinese national beat you up, not from the police.
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2019
  19. s002wjh

    s002wjh Well-Known Member

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    yes china is economically freer but keep tap on dissent, its not america or UK for sure. but if you talk to chinese then you know most are support of the government MAINLY due to its economy benefit. so who are you to tell them go overthrown the CCP. as long as china provide economy growth, there wont be a revolution.
     
  20. Pycckia

    Pycckia Well-Known Member

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    Yes, of course. That is what made my statement pungent.


    The central state is becoming stronger, income inequality has already exploded.

    Seems like central China is ripe for profitable investment, too. The belt and road initiative will multiply the opportunities for business expansion and trade. What is so magical about the coast?
     
  21. Concord

    Concord Well-Known Member

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    Then you must understand what I'm getting at.

    The Church didn't need divisions to have political power in Poland.

    Yes, you're right. The question to ask is: How, and why? Why are certain factions in the country willing to cede so much power to Xi Jinping?

    The answer is obvious: They know he has a difficult political struggle to win. And he might win it, but somebody in his position will lose it.

    In that sense he's similar to Putin.

    Not enough to justify the amount of money coastal China is paying into it. They're masters of the "digging holes and filling them" theory of full employment.

    The inland aspects of the plan are not economical, they're strategic. Trade is cheaper over water, period, and it's not like the Central Asians have big markets to exploit.

    What the Central Asians have is natural resources that can't be cut off easily by the Americans.

    It's not magic, it's logistics. The Chinese economy needs to get goods to markets, and the sea is the most efficient way to do that.
     
  22. s002wjh

    s002wjh Well-Known Member

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    this seem more balance. alot issue in HK these day are due to economy issue, but the economy issue is mainly due to fact china open up and doesn't need HK as a kind of gateway to china. also HK tourism industry is mostly destroyed after 2014, most mainland chinese doesn't visit HK anymore before it was bring in $Billions dollars. HK economy rely on finance industry which was substituted by Shanhai, it doesn't have manufacture of guanzhou, electronic industry of shenzhen or tourism industry of Macao.

     
  23. tkolter

    tkolter Well-Known Member

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    Britain gave way Hong Kong don't blame the USA what exactly do you want us to do its CHINA you don't start a war and land troops I the USA and you don't in China its suicidal the people who stayed are now Chinese and the Chinese government is going to annex Hong Kong as just another province and force compliance. People who want out better get out while they can.
     
  24. George Bailey

    George Bailey Well-Known Member

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    Yes!

    Doesn't the West have all the means of production it needs??? Yes.

    As a child I wondeeed why we did deals with China etc. Then in high school and college they explained it away with "opportunity cost" and a "global market."

    Now it is more clear than ever, isolationism is/was the answer.
     
  25. Pycckia

    Pycckia Well-Known Member

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    Wow, you are completely wrong!

    The number of mainland Chinese tourists allowed to visit Hong Kong must be capped, concern groups and residents in districts frequently disturbed by them said on Sunday.

    The government was also urged to divert some tourists to the Kai Tak cruise terminal and its facilities, which the groups said had not been used enough.

    On Sunday, the groups complained residential areas such as To Kwa Wan, Kowloon City and Hung Hom had seen an influx of tourists since the
    Hong Kong-Zhuhai-Macau Bridge
    which connects the city to mainland China, opened in October
    .


    https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong...ng-kong-residents-fed-influx-chinese-tourists


    In Sheung Shui, protesters rallied to oppose small-time Chinese traders who make short trips into the territory to buy goods that they then haul back to China to sell.

    The demonstrators chanted demands in Mandarin, China's official language, for the Chinese traders to go home. Many street-level shops were shuttered during the march.

    The traders have long been a source of anger among those in Hong Kong who say they have fueled inflation, driven up property prices, dodged taxes and diluted Sheung Shui's identity.

    "Our lovely town has become chaos," said Ryan Lai, 50, a resident of Sheung Shui, where so-called "parallel traders" buy bulk quantities of duty-free goods to be carried into mainland China and sold.

    https://www.newsmax.com/world/globaltalk/apfn-as-hong-kong-protests/2019/07/13/id/924292/
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2019

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