Hong Kong! Remember Tiananmen Square!

Discussion in 'Asia' started by Starjet, Jul 29, 2019.

  1. Moonglow

    Moonglow Well-Known Member

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    Impossible now what with very few American only corporations they are now international mega corporations..
     
  2. Moonglow

    Moonglow Well-Known Member

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    Glad you didn't advocate for the Revolutionary War?
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2019
  3. Starjet

    Starjet Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Well , 2+2=‘4. That’s extreme.
     
  4. Starjet

    Starjet Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Kong Hong! Get out! Now! The troops are coming. The slaughter will be unforgiving. The West will acquiesce. The American flag will not help; Trump will betray it.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2019
  5. Robert E Allen

    Robert E Allen Banned

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    We should prevent it. Thoes people's lives are more important than our relationship with China
     
  6. Mac-7

    Mac-7 Banned

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    We cant stop it

    China is on the move thanks to 25 years of free trade with America
     
  7. Doug1943

    Doug1943 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Turn on your Irony Detectors.
     
  8. s002wjh

    s002wjh Well-Known Member

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    HK protest turn into full on disruption to the cities economy and rest of HK resident, they are digging their own grave, HK economy gonna have tough time to recover after this. and I doubt they will accomplish anything. Now the local and foreigner are frustrated with current situation in the city. this is so call pro-democracy protest now. China just gonna wait until the local resident start fight back against these youngster like they did in 2014.

    https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/13/asia/hong-kong-airport-chaos-intl-hnk/index.html

     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2019
  9. Mac-7

    Mac-7 Banned

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    Hong Kong residents used to British civil liberties knew this was coming when the UK turned their city over to a brutal inhumain dictatorship in beijing

    I feel for them
     
  10. Robert E Allen

    Robert E Allen Banned

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    I can tell you this, i prefer war over being a subject of China. All day, every day, twice on Sunday.
     
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  11. s002wjh

    s002wjh Well-Known Member

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    well its UK fault, if they give them democracy in the 70s-80s, china wont dare to change the government system in 97s. but now china can just say hey look the brits didn't given them free election, so they are not going to do it either.
     
  12. Mac-7

    Mac-7 Banned

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    Maybe in the 1960s but I dont even know about that

    The brits were obligated by treaty to return HK in 1997
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2019
  13. Robert E Allen

    Robert E Allen Banned

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    No China is the aggressor 100% of the blame falls on them.

    Only the bad guy is the bad guy. Britain may have made mistakes. But the blame fir the current situation falls on China.
     
  14. s002wjh

    s002wjh Well-Known Member

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    how is china bad guy, it never promise free election. in 155 years, brit never give HK free election, and you expect a single part CCP give HK that lol. the current situation is mainly due to shitty economy in HK.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2019
  15. Robert E Allen

    Robert E Allen Banned

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    The people don't want to be dominated by China, that is enough. Peoples who have the desire to be free should be free.
     
  16. s002wjh

    s002wjh Well-Known Member

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    then they should leave HK, cause the land itself belong to China. they should also demonstrate under brit rule, consider brits treat them as 2nd class citizen as late as 80s. after 97, there are 300k HK resident qualify for british citizenship, the brit reject them.
    causing havoc in the cities, block paramedic, airport, run sack government building doesn't help them, it only frustrated more local residents.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2019
  17. Doug1943

    Doug1943 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Bingo.
    To the initials NKVD and GPU and KGB and STASI, add MSS. The last thing the Chinese autocracy want is peaceful mass movement in HK, using Ghandian tactics. Not only does violence serve their cause, but everyone following this should pick up on the following: In one of those protests, someone raised the British flag. In another, the other day, it was the American flag.

    Now ... that could just be some naive person or persons, hoping that Britian and/or the US will start WWIII so they can live in freedom. But I don't think so.

    It may come as a shock to many Brits and Americans, and Westerners generally, but the Chinese people, in their great majority, are deeply nationalist. They are proud of their long history as the first civilized society. They have not forgotten that the British went to war to force their governent to allow addictive opium into China, that the Western powers, were cutting China up like a cake, that we sacked the Summer Palace, and treated them generally with either pity or contempt.

    I know it's more complicated than this, as all real history is. I'm just telling you how they feel. The Chinese Communist Party put an end to all this. When Mao gave his first speech after the victory of the Reds, he didn't go on about how they had made another advance in the world proletarian revolution, blah blah.

    He said, "The Chinese people have stood up!"

    Now, yes, yes, we all know, "greatest mass murderer of all time" etc etc. Usually that's all we know. We don't know about the tens of millions killed in the Taiping Rebellion in the previous century, the mass starvation, the rape of Nanking, the sanitary and medical measures introduced by the Communists, the children sent to school. We may remember the insane policies of Mao in the 'Great Leap Forward' trying to leap decades in years through backyard steel mills, where all the inefficiencies of a socialist planned economy were present, squared and cubed, followed by the murderous 'Cultural Revolution' (which was exactly the opposite of 'cultured'). That's not gone away in their memory.

    But ... forty years ago, as soon as Mao died, and with the American threat toned down by our recognition of them, they introduced 'socialism with Chinese characteristics', i.e. capitalism with Chinese characteristics, in as a result their economy grew like wildfire. Hundreds of millions of people were lifted out of extreme poverty. To an American, this means nothing at all. To a Chinese citizen it means everything.

    Well, not everything. What do people want from their government? First of all security. Their great grandparents saw a lot of foreign soldiers on their soil, and a lot of warlords. No more. Then they want prosperity. They've got that in spades. Last of all comes liberty. That is yet to be achieved.

    My bet is that those foreign flags were waved by MSS agents, and that they are ones stoking the violence as well.

    The Chinese government are NOT stupid. Any good strategist knows you want to have, if possible, moral supremacy on your side, not just bayonets. They want to have Chinese public opinion on their side, to be seen as restoring law and order, defending ordinary people. Then they can do their dirty work as in Tienanmen Square, where even Western leaders at the time said, 'It had to be done'.
     
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  18. jay runner

    jay runner Banned

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    Hong Kong is Red China. The ghost of Mao is going to smite Hong Kong.
     
  19. Robert E Allen

    Robert E Allen Banned

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    No government has the right to oppress its people Bc China is already in the wrong on regards to it's own people and it's horrible of the US to do business with them, let alone allow China to be a legitimate member of the international community.
    If the people of HK don't want to be under Chinese control then America should help.
    We should also be working with the Chinese people to overthrow their gvt.
     
  20. s002wjh

    s002wjh Well-Known Member

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    like how US-Iraq war or the Syria civil war or the arab spring? you really should ask Chinese if they want help or not before open your mouth. they value stability and economy. the road to hell are paved with good intentions. The LAND in HK is part of China, "if they don't like it, they can leave" trump quote. its ridiculous to block airport, paramedic, run sack government building and private business in the name of democracy. who give them the right to disrupt everybody else livehood. China just gonna wait, and eventually the local are so pissed about these youngster and take matter into their own hands. have you notice almost all these protester are under 20s, cause the grow up have other responsibilities then destroy their own city and livehood for nothing. These protester are just naïve, simple as that. if California want independent, you think the fed. government gonna allow it!!
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2019
  21. Starjet

    Starjet Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Why Hong Kong matters--its liberty vs tyranny on a world stage for all to see. And what the world will see is Hong Kong fall, liberty smashed, tyranny triumph, and the bodies piled. A giant leap for tyranny, and not a single tear for liberty. To quote an author I only slightly like, but one who seems most apropos, Kurt Vonnegut Jr, "...and so it goes".

    Ayn Rand: "Tyranny is any political system (whether absolute monarchy or fascism or communism) that does not recognize individual rights (which necessarily include property rights). The overthrow of a political system by force is justified only when it is directed against tyranny: it is an act of self-defense against those who rule by force. For example, the American Revolution."--http://aynrandlexicon.com/lexicon/tyranny.html

    But it won't matter. The Revolution wasn't for liberty against tyranny, it was nothing more than a bunch of rich white guys who owned slaves and wanted to rule the world. And no, never mind their words, their ideals, their principles, their thoughts, their ideas--The Declaration of Independence, The Rights of Man, The Bill of Rights--their fight, their creation of a nation that took Man from a log cabin to skyscrapers; from folklore potions to immunizations and vaccines; from horses and bicycles to self-driving cars and rockets to the galaxies...and from black men in chains to black men running business, flying jets, and piloting space shuttles.

    And for what? So today's citizens can laugh and shrug as liberty is butchered in Hong Kong, yawing, "It's not my problem." Oh, but it will be, citizen, it...will..be--China isn't building islands in the South China Sea to spend dollars.
     
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  22. s002wjh

    s002wjh Well-Known Member

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    smash government building, block airports, block paramedic, disrupt local business, no thx, don't want this kind liberty. and people wonder why most Chinese don't want this kind of liberty, because it bring chaos, and anarchy. people do some the worst things base on some self righteous ideology.
    the freedom HK enjoy didn't get butchered, its the same as when brit left, no more no less. a revolution will end up like Syria, and bring countless innocence who just want to live their lives, have jobs, provide their family needs into a uncontrollable turmoil!!.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2019
  23. Doug1943

    Doug1943 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Well ... Mao has been turning in his grave ever since Deng Xiaoping, peace be unto him, got rid of socialism and instituted capitalism.
    The thing is, autocrats who modernize their countries dig their own, or their successors', graves.
    Illiterate peasants are the pillars of autocracy. Website designers want to be able to control their own lives.
    But to modernize your country, you have to turn the grandchildren of illiterate peasants into website designers (and many other professions).

    Francisco Franco led a successful uprising against a Leftwing Republican government, defeating it in 1939 and executing hundreds of thousands of its supporters.
    He ruled with an iron fist for nearly thirty-five years -- but he wanted Spain to be modern, to grow, to have industry, to have an educated population. So Spain developed.

    Then he died in 1975. In Barcelona (and maybe elsewhere) the liquor stores sold out of champion within an hour of his death's being announced. In another couple of years you could go to a gay bar on the Ramblas, the Communist Party was quarrellng with the Socialist Party in public meetings instead of inside jail cells ... Spain had, 'overnight', become a modern liberal democracy.

    Some fascist army officers were upset at this and a few years later tried to make a coup. The King went on TV the next day and denounced them, and it was over. (Lots of theories about this, but the point was, the modern Spanish people were not going to put up with any coup, and the King knew it. He made himself very popular by taking the side of democracy. Well, who cares what his motivations were?)

    The Old Mole of history had been grubbing away below the surface. He long ago left Spain, where his task was completed, and is now at work in Russia, in Iran, and in China.
     
  24. Starjet

    Starjet Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Rationalizations are not moral principles, they're intellectual fraud.
     
  25. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Donor

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    Last edited: Aug 13, 2019

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