I don't think independent will help them, a better economy and free election is better. China will goto war if Taiwan declare independent forget it about HK which is already in China control.
Human freedom is not just about politic, but economy freedom as well. its about every aspect of life. life is more than just politic, politic is very small part of ppls life. again its more about you opinion that you perceived the index as bias, but can you provide alternative to CATO index?
If the press you read in China and Hong Kong is part of the MSM, then it's owned by the same six companies as our own. There's no difference. Here's a better and more factual assessment from Moon of Alabama: --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Today's rampage comes after a "protester" died when he fell from a floor in a parking garage. The rioters claim that police was involved in the incident but surveillance footage shows that the man was all alone. After peaceful "color revolutions" ceased to work violence was introduced as part of all U.S. "regime change" operations. The thinking behind it was explained in a June 30 New York Times op-ed: An important idea that has been circulating in online forums is now firmly planted in my mind. It is called the Marginal Violence Theory (暴力邊緣論), and it holds that protesters should not actively use or advocate violence, but instead use the most aggressive nonviolent actions possible to push the police and the government to their limits. The protesters should thoughtfully escalate nonviolence, maybe even resort to mild force, to push the government to the edge. Violence against the government was supposed to create a violent response which would then increase the support for the protests. That theory seems not to work in Hong Kong. Legit demonstrations are now reduced to a few hundreds of people. The hundred thousands who attended the first demonstrations no longer come. They have recognized that the core protesters' "mild force" is just senseless violence and that these rioters are completely unreasonable. Today they intentionally burned a man who was verbally opposing them: https://www.moonofalabama.org/2019/...olence-fails-to-win-more-protest-support.html
China has been exceptionally patient with Hong Kong comparing Spain on Catalonia or Ukraine on Donetsk, etc. Or even on Waco, Texas. It is time China declare Hong Kong under martial law. Shoot violators. Moi
I do not doubt there are some wrongdoers and liars blending within the protestors and the more aggressive rioters. I read many independent news sources from around the world, and I also stay in touch with non-protestors in Hong Kong who have no benefit from either side. Overall, however, it was the police in Hong Kong who began the violence and attacks of peaceful protestors. I have seen plenty of footage myself. Even live footage on the ground from my gf.
But Hong Kong isn't a communist dictatorship, so I don't know what your talking about. Now a question for you. Should a small group of anarchists have their say over a majority?
He is referring to China which is and rules over Hong Kong. This isn't about a small number of anarchists.
actually if there is a vote right now in entire china weather give HK what it want, most mainland Chinese will vote No, even in HK there are a lot pro-government ppl. mainland Chinese hate HK now after the vandalizing of Chinese properties, targeting mainland tourist/students and ran sack government building etc. They never see eye to eye before either due to HK overall thinking less of mainland Chinese. one of the reason CCP didn't censorship the protest in HK within china is because they know mainlander gonna hate HK and become more pro-government after seeing the riot.
Yeah, I bet mainland China does hate it, as it is currently a fascist empire, and not a free country. In Hong Kong there are some pro-government people, sure, but they are dwindling.
i'm not talking about government but its citizen, could you imagine Americans reaction if pro-communist wave Chinese flag in DC and ran sack US citizen properties and beating random US citizen. its the same for Chinese, Chinese are very nationalistic , if HK protester say they want freedom but say they are Chinese, then ill bet most Chinese will support them(that's something CCP afraid of), but they did the opposite which mean they piss off many Chinese citizen in the mainland. if you talk to Chinese in west, i'm sure they are also against HK protest now. whatever sympathy mainland Chinese had for HK is gone, when HK start rioting and targeting mainland Chinese.
brit also rule HK far longer 156years, did they give free election to HK? I recall all HK governor/head of police during Brit rule are white guy from UK. even Macao citizen was given Portugal citizenship, but not HK. UK reject HK application to become UK citizenship after the handover.
I always prefer references and quotes, so I can form my own opinion, rather than another person's conclusions. Moon of Alabama always does, and that's why I find him credible.
You are avoiding the issue a little. I respect some of your posts elsewhere, but I too have shared credible references and quotes.
Main land China might be under threat by Washington not to intervene. I know in Ukraine, Yanukovich was threatened and warned by Nuland not to let the police intervene with the 'peaceful' protesters - even though those so called peaceful protesters were hacking them and burning them with Molotov cocktails. The fact that Yanukovich didn't have the courage to stop them infuriated Vladimir Putin, and blames him for allowing the situation to get out of hand. Putin saved his life anyway, and said it's not for him to judge, but God.
.But you only gave me your opinion and haven't given me the sources you used to form those opinions - so there's no credibility there. In contrast, Moon of Alabama will give the actual references and sources. I try to do the same if and when I can, otherwise I will usually state that it's just my opinion - but not always.
So, if the Washington regime change freaks had planned on using the protests in Hong Kong as the starting point in undermining the government in mainland China, it didn't work. Instead, by showing the people on the mainland the chaos and violence going on in Hong Kong, it has made them more adamant against the West in contrast to their own government. Smart move by China.
