House Bill 1441 - Do fathers get a say in the abortion of their unborn child?

Discussion in 'Abortion' started by Heretic Sentinel, Feb 26, 2017.

  1. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2015
    Messages:
    66,645
    Likes Received:
    46,476
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Believe what you want.
     
  2. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2014
    Messages:
    56,891
    Likes Received:
    21,024
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Ya, I believe the facts and you believe that White Men Do No Evil....:roflol: ... are you denying that white Christian lawmakers have tried in many ways with lots of legislation to try to limit the rights of women?!!!!!!!

    They have.....why do you think it's OK for them to do that but not for non-white, non-Christian men to do it????


    Are those Muslims that are mentioned in the OP ? ARE THEY????????????
     
  3. Junkieturtle

    Junkieturtle Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2012
    Messages:
    15,838
    Likes Received:
    7,352
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    The father can get a say when the father is part of the pregnancy. As it stands, our biology dictates that the woman's body alone endures the entirety of the pregnancy. All of it. Why should a man have a say in what the woman can do when absolutely no part of the man at any time has anything to do with the pregnancy. And no, the initial sex doesn't count because there is no pregnancy until after that occurs and the fertilized egg implants on the uterine wall.

    When the man carries the baby inside their body, then they can have a say in the pregnancy.
     
    Sallyally likes this.
  4. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2015
    Messages:
    66,645
    Likes Received:
    46,476
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Shout it to the world! Go outside and spread the word!

    Knock yourself out, no one's buying it.
     
  5. Latherty

    Latherty Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2008
    Messages:
    5,989
    Likes Received:
    489
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Agreed.

    I can find sympathy for male position though. If a couple choose to have a baby, and in particular if they have had difficulty conceiving and put a lot of resources into the fertilization, the man could be both emotionally and financially invested in the fetus. But that is insufficient for legal intervention on the woman's body and this is just one that the boys have to lose.
     
    Sallyally likes this.
  6. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2014
    Messages:
    56,891
    Likes Received:
    21,024
    Trophy Points:
    113
    UH, YOU do NOT speak for "no one"....YOU put your foot in it...and are having a hard time admitting that it was white Christian men who are trying to control women and treat them like dirt.


    AND you couldn't answer the simple questions :) Let's shout that to the world :)
    Ya, I believe the facts and you believe that White Men Do No Evil.... ... are you denying that white Christian lawmakers have tried in many ways with lots of legislation to try to limit the rights of women?!!!!!!!

    They have.....why do you think it's OK for them to do that but not for non-white, non-Christian men to do it????


    Are those Muslims that are mentioned in the OP ? ARE THEY????
     
  7. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2014
    Messages:
    56,891
    Likes Received:
    21,024
    Trophy Points:
    113
    So you believe that if a man impregnates a woman he owns her but that is slavery and it is illegal in this country.

    You say so right here : """I do however think father's should have a say in whether or not a woman can abort their unborn """

    You are stating that the sire can FORCE the woman to give birth because he had sex with her and she became pregnant...


    No, ONLY the one who has a "SAY" is the one who has to give 9 months of her life, suffer temporary and permanent pain and damage to her body, go through the pain of child birth, give up her time for doctor visits, get setbacks in her education and/or job, maybe suffer job loss, certainly suffer financial loss, suffer parting with the baby NONE OF WHICH THIS "MAN" HAS TO GO THROUGH...


    ...that person is the one who decides what she does in life, not a man who had sex with her, not some senile old legislators who grew up expecting women to be slaves and treated like slow children, not Anti-Choicers who want women to suffer so they can feel all warm and fuzzy......and not even weirdos who envy women their ability to get pregnant.....no one.
     
  8. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2015
    Messages:
    66,645
    Likes Received:
    46,476
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You mistake my disinterest in engaging you for not having answers.

    I just don't care, because a) you'd never listen and b) progs are less relevant each passing day.
     
  9. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2014
    Messages:
    56,891
    Likes Received:
    21,024
    Trophy Points:
    113
    :roflol: Yes,I agree, you were caught with your foot in your mouth accusing Muslims of something done right here by white Christian guys ..:nana:
     
  10. TheResister

    TheResister Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2015
    Messages:
    4,748
    Likes Received:
    608
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Let me do the best that I can to resolve this fairly and equitably:

    Women make this pretentious argument that it's their body and their decision. So, the father becomes nothing more than a sperm donor and a financial revenue generating device for the woman. Easy fix:

    Your body, your baby, your problem. If you're going to marry a woman, figure out who gets to make that decision before you get married and put it in a prenup. If a woman knows she isn't getting any money from the guy who potentially knocks her up, she might learn how to refrain from sex. It's her body and it's her responsibility.

    Look at it like this: If you and I are friends and one of us talks the other into getting dog drunk, but we get in your car and you're driving, you are solely responsible for your car should we wreck. It wouldn't be like I have to split the expenses for your wrecked car. If women want to make the claim the baby is theirs, then I contend the same reasoning should be applied.
     
  11. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2015
    Messages:
    66,645
    Likes Received:
    46,476
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Yeah you got me good. Good work buddy.
     
  12. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2014
    Messages:
    56,891
    Likes Received:
    21,024
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Thank you. That was very gracious of you to admit and hopefully it opened your eyes a bit.
     
  13. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2014
    Messages:
    56,891
    Likes Received:
    21,024
    Trophy Points:
    113
    :roflol: It's "pretentious" for women to own their own bodies ?!? No, it's not .....Nor is it pretentious for women to decide for themselves what to do with their bodies.

    Not necessarily, some men walk away from their children and don't contribute a dime and women raise their kids on their own.

    .

    Gee, maybe men should save themselves from responsibility by refraining from sex. :)


    It is her body but once the kid is born the law says both parents have the responsibility. Men can escape that responsibility by refraining from having sex ....

    .
     
  14. TheResister

    TheResister Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2015
    Messages:
    4,748
    Likes Received:
    608
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You really don't get it do you? Yeah, both parties refrain from sex = no baby; however, if it's the woman's body, SHE is responsible for what she voluntarily puts in it. The solutions of course mean changing the law. Duh. Who would have thunk it?

    Let me do the best that I can to resolve this fairly and equitably:

    Women make this pretentious argument that it's their body and their decision. So, the father becomes nothing more than a sperm donor and a financial revenue generating device for the woman. Easy fix:

    Your body, your baby, your problem. If you're going to marry a woman, figure out who gets to make that decision before you get married and put it in a prenup. If a woman knows she isn't getting any money from the guy who potentially knocks her up, she might learn how to refrain from sex. It's her body and it's her responsibility.

    Look at it like this: If you and I are friends and one of us talks the other into getting dog drunk, but we get in your car and you're driving, you are solely responsible for your car should we wreck. It wouldn't be like I have to split the expenses for your wrecked car. If women want to make the claim the baby is theirs, then I contend the same reasoning should be applied.
     
  15. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2014
    Messages:
    56,891
    Likes Received:
    21,024
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You really don't get , do you?

    With the entire history of the world to back up my claim that telling people to just quit having sex is not only stupid but totally ineffectual.


    It's "pretentious" for women to own their own bodies ?!? No, it's not .....Nor is it pretentious for women to decide for themselves what to do with their bodies.



    Not necessarily, some men walk away from their children and don't contribute a dime and women raise their kids on their own.

    .


    Gee, maybe men should save themselves from responsibility by refraining from sex.




    It is her body but once the kid is born the law says both parents have the responsibility. Men can escape that responsibility by refraining from having sex ....

    .
     
  16. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2010
    Messages:
    63,709
    Likes Received:
    13,466
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Got to love legislation based on fallacious terms "Unborn Child". If one is going to claim a child exists - at all stages of pregnancy- then one must first prove this claim.

    And this claim simply has not been proven.
     
    Sallyally likes this.
  17. Abandon

    Abandon Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2016
    Messages:
    237
    Likes Received:
    13
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Legal say on abortion? No.

    Not having to pay child support when you want nothing to do with the child? Yes. If women can't be forced to be mothers then men can't be forced to be fathers.
     
    The Mandela Effect likes this.
  18. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2015
    Messages:
    50,653
    Likes Received:
    41,718
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Medications, AKA abortificants, are NOT medical "devices", they are pharmaceuticals.

    A medical device is a wheelchair or an artificial hip.
     
  19. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2015
    Messages:
    50,653
    Likes Received:
    41,718
    Trophy Points:
    113
    If the father "vetoes" the abortion then he should pay the women a full salary for carrying his child and delivering it and that would include all of the healthcare, clothing and living expenses for the duration. About $100,000 might just cover it.
     
  20. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2014
    Messages:
    56,891
    Likes Received:
    21,024
    Trophy Points:
    113
    ...and that should include that 18 years duration which is about $250,000. :)
     
    Sallyally likes this.
  21. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2015
    Messages:
    50,653
    Likes Received:
    41,718
    Trophy Points:
    113
    That is for the extended care plan if he wants her to raise his child too. ;)

    The cheaper $100k plan means that he ends up having to deal with the dirty diapers and the sleepless nights all by himself.
     
    Sallyally and FoxHastings like this.
  22. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2010
    Messages:
    63,709
    Likes Received:
    13,466
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Got to love a bill that contains a blatant logical fallacy. (Assumed premise = unborn child)

    In order to claim an unborn child exists one must show that this claim is true. If this has not been done, this is fallacy.

    The status of the Zygote, Embryo, Fetus (whether or not the entity is a human) is one of the main abortion debates. There is no consensus among subject matter experts that a single human cell (zygote) is a human. As such it is abject nonsense to claim defacto that a zygote is a child.

    My opinion is that bills containing obvious fallacy turn our legal system into a joke.

    When one considers that other law exist which contradicts the claim that a zygote is a child ... this direct contradiction in law is an anathema to law.
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2017
  23. iamanonman

    iamanonman Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2016
    Messages:
    4,826
    Likes Received:
    1,576
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I realize current law is a bit of dilemma in that if a woman doesn't want to be a mom she can choose not to be, but a man does not get that same choice. However, just remember men, your choice came just before you impregnated her. I know, the woman is every bit as involved in that decision as the man (extenuating circumstances aside), but the difference is that it is her body and her resources so it's her choice. I think this is one issue in which the scale should tip in the woman's favor so for that reason this bill sounds like a bad idea.
     
  24. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2014
    Messages:
    56,891
    Likes Received:
    21,024
    Trophy Points:
    113

    Good post....and the bill is also bad because it's slavery and slavery is illegal... a man doesn't own a woman because he impregnated her...
     
    Derideo_Te likes this.
  25. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2015
    Messages:
    50,653
    Likes Received:
    41,718
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The intended purpose of this bill is to remove the choice from women even though the authors won't admit as much. Like all other anti-abortion legislation it is intended to keep women "barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen".

    If men could fall pregnant they would have drive-through abortion clinics next to every Starbucks in the nation.

    But none of the men who are pushing for this legislation have the empathy to understand what they would feel like having to face a decision of that nature.
     
    Margot2 and FoxHastings like this.

Share This Page