House Democrats zero in on 'abuse of power' in Trump impeachment inquiry

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by Egoboy, Oct 22, 2019.

  1. Egoboy

    Egoboy Well-Known Member Donor

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    SNIP
    Pelosi is said to favor one sweeping charge related to Ukraine, but there's some debate about the need for additional charges.

    Democratic House committee chairs and leaders are still debating the need for additional articles or charges that extend beyond the president's dealings with Ukraine, but Speaker Nancy Pelosi has been adamant that the case against Trump must be targeted and easy to communicate in order to build public support, according to those familiar with discussions.

    House aides stressed that no decisions have been made and that it is too early to discuss the specific legal framework before all of the evidence is collected.
    ENDSNIP

    https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/tr...buse-power-trump-impeachment-inquiry-n1069431

    Partisanship aside, this is an interesting turning point. Do you "put all your eggs in 1 basket" and go with a single article or do you try and have multiple articles since each article is voted separately.

    It's sort of like over-charging in a court case. Do you reach with murder when manslaughter is a lock?

    The problem here is time... You have obvious AOP and Contempt of Congress on Ukraine articles now, and trying to write up additional articles on other Trump behavior (like Emoluments) seem like a waste of time to me.

    I seem to be siding with Nancy here.... Less is more .....You?
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2019
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  2. TBLee

    TBLee Well-Known Member

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    I think they need to come forth and vote. Until then, this is just a dog and pony show.
     
  3. Egoboy

    Egoboy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Yes, but on WHAT?? They're gonna vote, but my question stands... keep it small or go for volume until something sticks... they have either option...
     
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  4. AFM

    AFM Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    All Democrats are doing is dirty politics. They know Trump will never be removed from office. So they are attempting to impeach him in the court of public opinion by refusing to take a House vote putting their Representatives on record and holding all these hearings behind closed doors, refusing to release transcripts, and then selectively leaking what they deem damaging to the President to the compliant and transactional press. Rationally thinking voters see right through this.

    What is puzzling to me is why the Senate Republicans don't conduct an identical public hearing in their own committees and call the same witnesses for open testimony.
     
  5. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    LOL, now looking into past corruption is an impeachable offense according to the dem clown show.
     
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  6. TBLee

    TBLee Well-Known Member

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    Well I thought that Schiff had it all under control. He keeps informing America about all the evidence. The reality is that it doesn't matter what they go for, they do not have the votes needed in the Senate and its highly unlikely that Trump will be impeached. This is all for show...and it just may backfire on the Dems in 2020. I guess time will tell..
     
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  7. Egoboy

    Egoboy Well-Known Member Donor

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    I'd bet serious money he is impeached in the House, then I'd likely double up by betting he's not removed by the Senate...

    And I fully disagree this is all for show... there are real world implications here... but it should be going faster, IMHO...
     
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  8. Abqguardian

    Abqguardian Well-Known Member

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    Even if its all for show there are real world implications. But its hard to take the impeachment seriously.
     
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  9. struth

    struth Well-Known Member

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    Abuse of power? Haha the irony of a group of unlawful house dems basing their stories on “parody” talking about a abuse of power!

    Hahahaa
     
  10. Crownline

    Crownline Banned at Members Request

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    Punishment in search of a crime?
     
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  11. TBLee

    TBLee Well-Known Member

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    Well....first things first. Lets get it up for a vote! ;)
     
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  12. Egoboy

    Egoboy Well-Known Member Donor

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    First things first are articles, then an open hearing in the house on the articles... the actual impeachment vote is not close to first...
     
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  13. AFM

    AFM Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    So he will never be impeached. All of this is performance art dirty politics.
     
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  14. Egoboy

    Egoboy Well-Known Member Donor

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    No..... again, he will likely be impeached, it's unlikely he will be removed... Like Bill Clinton...

    It's not that complicated... don't make it so...
     
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  15. TBLee

    TBLee Well-Known Member

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    Of course it isn't close. LOL
     
  16. btthegreat

    btthegreat Well-Known Member

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    I think you can start to write up abuse of power and contempt of congress and wait to schedule the vote on contempt dependent on how cooperative witnesses are with their testimony and that requires we finish litigating those subpoenas' Mind one of the major reasons I support this impeachment process is to defend the subpoena power of Congress to enforce and strengthen their capacity to investigate the executive. We cannot allow this administration to succeed in this stonewalling strategy. This precedent is crucial. We cannot very well hold witnesses in contempt of congress while Trump is inoculated.
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2019
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  17. AFM

    AFM Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    And that is exactly why the Democrats in the House will not ever hold a vote and will not ever hold open hearings and will not divulge the names of the whistle blowers (if they actually exist).
     
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  18. struth

    struth Well-Known Member

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    Totally incorrect, first a vote to have an inquiry, then it goes to the judiciary committtee, they conduct hearings, determine articles, vote, then send back to fill house.

    Shifty’s parody isn’t even the right committee, let alone an inquiry
     
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  19. struth

    struth Well-Known Member

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    Another major difference, there was actually a high crime and misdemeanor when Clinton was impeached. Here, all the dems have is “parody”
     
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  20. Egoboy

    Egoboy Well-Known Member Donor

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    All well said, but I don't think there is any litigation for witnesses under the Ukraine investigation... I believe those were all for the Mueller investigation and other investigations.

    So do you hold up Ukraine impeachment articles for Mueller results? I don't....

    Cippilone's letter alone should get a valid article of impeachment on contempt of Congress...

    But it is important that the case(s) on McGahn testifying be resolved, and they will, impeachment on Ukraine or not...
     
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  21. AFM

    AFM Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Then why the lack of transparency in the committee hearings. Open them up to the public, allow R’s to subpoena witnesses, put the whistle blowers before the committee for questioning, ... What are the Democrats hiding ???
     
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  22. opion8d

    opion8d Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    At first I agreed with the "less is more approach." now I am not sure it can be contained. If Pelosi wants to go with abuse of power, that opens up a lot of ground. Still, I believe the testimony should not be broad, but focused. The problem is, once public testimony begins, this could become impossible to contain. Abuse of Power is a rich field when it comes to Trump.
     
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  23. Egoboy

    Egoboy Well-Known Member Donor

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    That's certainly the fear... especially when you let Republicans call witnesses who have no bearing on any of the topics at hand... Then it likely could become a circus.

    I hope Schiff is able to limit witnesses to just Ukraine issues.... If the articles are narrow, I think he can.... If they're broad, anybody can be called and nothing goes forward, by Republican design....
     
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  24. btthegreat

    btthegreat Well-Known Member

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    Here's the tricky question for me. If my big deal is getting stronger legal precedent for the Congressional power of the investigatory powers of Congress, and if the subpoena is the most potent and versatile tool on which to base that power than does it follow that I want them to do everything they can to strengthen their case in court, including that formal preliminary vote, or do I want them to risk having a slightly weaker case because they do not take that vote?

    That is a tough one to answer. But I am inclined to stick with Pelosi here. How often will they be able to get a floor vote on impeachment passed compared to how often they will need this subpoena powers enforced by the courts? I think we may want to go into this battle with an impeachment inquiry based on the Speakers referral alone because that will more frequently resemble more scenarios of congressional investigation. We could, I imagine go back and get that floor vote subsequent to a defeat in the courts on that rock solid foundation. Its not like the votes are not there.
     
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  25. struth

    struth Well-Known Member

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    And this is the goal of the left, and why any articles will be a hoax.

    This highlights the dems are the ones abusing power.
     
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