House Passes Gun "control" Bills

why not? .001% of the people are a problem with that, those are pretty good odds. We don’t err on the side of ignoring 99.999% of society.

 

Unlikely.

This is a statement of ignorance or dishonesty; every mass shooting in the US, save for one, could have been equally perpetrated with a pump-action shotgun.

 

No.
Background checks are an unnecessary and ineffective restriction on the exercise of the right keep and bear arms.

 

As soon as liberals find out how deadly a pump shotgun really is they will want to ban pump shotguns as weapons of war which they will start calling assault shotguns.

https://owlcation.com/humanities/World-War-1-History-Germany-Declares-Shotgun-Inhumane

 

DP-12.
Double-barrel pump. (7+1)x2
They'll pee their pants.

 

As it should fall. It's a fundamental right, that shall not be infringed. I'm sorry you have a rot in the soul of your country that produces these evil acts, especially in your cities, where the VAST majority of gun violence occurs, but figure out that rot without immediately seeking to violate our rights. It's the same position I've had on Covid: I understand the problem, but we are going to have to put in some work and solve it, and not try the easy way by going for our rights.

 

The only ones who feel entitled are those who have lived their entire lives in a state that successfully ensured their security, who want to overrule a generation that lived through a time in which the state failed to do that, and thus, through a lively national debate, came to the conclusion that the right to keep and bear arms is a fundamental right.

The fact that people who have experienced a few tragedies think they are wiser on the issue than the founding generation is ENTITLED.

 

From the last link: https://amp.theage.com.au/national/victoria/gun-violence-grips-melbourne-20200212-p5402v.html

"gun violence often came in cycles...In instances where there is ongoing conflict between individuals or rival groups"

There's a potential explanation.

Not sure if something that is in double digits and remains in double digits would be exploding. What are the comparable rates for the US?

 

From our priv convs:

If a crim shoots a passer by (accident or deliberate) it makes big news. But between gangs doesn't register in the same way.

The media has presented all the facts and data in your links. I don't think they're hiding anything. The average citizen is probably not that concerned and happy that police are doing their best to keep unregistered/prohibited guns as low as possible. It looks like they are catching the crims.

 

I’m sure the rates are higher in the US. That’s not my argument. My point is firearms are readily available to those wishing to do violence in Australia (unless the sources here are lying). While we are told here on PF every day there is no gun violence in Australia because there is no access to firearms.

If this graph were labeled “US” it would be bandied about PF of proof of what a degenerate society we have here. But in Australia a huge increase in firearm violence is just a cycle and no cause for concern. That just seems odd to me.

 

Fair enough. If the increasing rates of firearm violence are not concerning there there I guess it isn’t much different than here. The gangster shootings are used to pump up mass shooting statistics here but there is little concern from the anti gun side otherwise. Even the innocents killed and wounded by stray bullets from gangsters aren’t a concern here to many.

I guess my overall state of confusion comes from the fact most Australians are completely unconcerned with rising firearm availability and violence at home (and even police power expansion violating privacy rights), but spend hours a day trying to “fix” our problems here. It’s just a bit odd.

I appreciate your perspective.

 

It's a cause for concern, but not a direct cause for concern for most citizens. It's something you read on the news but are not impacted about directly.

As an aside I came across an article just recently. It implies that firearm restrictions are working, kind of.

Mr Silvester said the crude tactics were partly the result of firearm prohibition orders which prevent certain individuals from carrying guns.

“There’s been 1500 of those put out, which means the top end of the Middle Eastern crime gangs and the bikie gangs can’t carry guns, so they franchise it off, in the bikies’ case, to clean skins or prospects who don’t have the experience,” Mr Silvester said.

“Before that, they’d carry guns and if they saw their target, they’d shoot him.”

https://www.news.com.au/national/vi...s/news-story/d3fef24ef947ccdc86bf18b4e37e51b0


I'd rather not get involved in the arguments between you (plural) and other PF members. As I said elsewhere, over some time I've accepted America's gun attitudes as part and parcel of the American experience. It doesn't stop me from scratching my head occasionally though, as an educational psychologist, particularly when you are talking about arming teachers and extreme security measures at schools etc. But that's another argument for another time.

 

Bold: I think if you look at the overall statistics, including gun related accident and suicides etc. we are doing ok. I don't see a major uptick since 1994 or whenever it was.

I think it's impossible to attribute any changes to a particular law, but I'll call any improvements a happy coincidence. The bad guys are mostly killing other bad guys.

Thanks. Appreciate yours. Because at least you are willing to analyse and see another perspective. Through discourse with yourself and others I understand US gun statistics are confounded by many variables specific to the US... History, demographics, culture, and dangerous hotspots.

Speaking for myself and only myself I would be happy to come on the farm and shoot some tin cans with a semi. It would be fun. But I'm glad we don't have your gun laws. It would open up a can* of worms while providing minimal freedom to a small group. Likewise, I am happy to travel on the autobahn in Germany one of those speed limit, but I wouldn't necessarily want that arrangement in Australia either. Ditto grade 4 white water rafting in Uganda with no medical insurance.

I realise that's contradictory but if you think about it we are happy to travel to other countries and enjoy their cultural experiences but we don't necessarily feel the need to have them in our backyard.


*Pun intended

 

Here’s how we approach the problem of gangsters shooting each other.


https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/loc...-in-deadly-gang-related-gunfight/2628059/?amp

I appreciate your explanations of what’s going on there. I also appreciate your stance of letting sovereign nations make their own decisions. This is me tipping my hat to you!

 

Thanks! I'll read this later. On my phone dictating on a train, so auto type is a bit dodgy ^^

 

Understood. I don’t want most of America in my backyard either! Nor do I want a government that can change laws any time it wants to do warrant less searches.

And where I live nobody complains about the local firearm violence rate either. Lots of guns, very little gun crime. Our perspectives have a lot to do with our local environment I suppose.

Oh, I’m up for all the recreational pursuits except the whitewater rafting in Uganda! Being a weak swimmer, the one rafting experience of my life was enough!