How are we better off post Iran deal?

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by robini123, Jun 21, 2019.

  1. robini123

    robini123 Well-Known Member

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    I have a number of questions in order to help me understand the mindset of those who supported withdrawing from the Iran deal.

    First I want to give my perspective. We went from a stable Iran deal to the U.S. pulling out, ships being bombed, a drone shot down, and edging twords war. We also have some allies looking for an alternative to the U.S. dollar which I assume is not a good thing for the strength of our currency.

    Onto my questions. Please keep in mind I am an independent with no political ties who simply wants to understand why we went from a relatively stable Iran deal to edging towards war?

    1) Why was it necessary to pull out?

    2) How has the pull out served America’s National interests and security?
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2019
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  2. Pro_Line_FL

    Pro_Line_FL Well-Known Member

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    We gained nothing by pulling out. Trump did it to appease his base who had been told it was a bad deal. Ironically now Trump it trying to enforce the deal even after he dishonored it himself. You couldn't make it up if you tried.
     
  3. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The deal still allowed Iran nuclear weapons in future years. It also allowed Iran to still produce nuclear fuel. It allowed the EU to trade with Iran. Basically it was kicking the can down the road allowing profiteering. The US has entered into so many useless stupid agreements like the Paris Accord which was a wealth distribution scheme with no teeth. You couldn't make it up if you tried.
     
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  4. APACHERAT

    APACHERAT Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Quoting an infamous liberal Secretary of State Madeleine Albright... "What's the point of having this superb military if you can't use it?"
     
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  5. 61falcon

    61falcon Well-Known Member

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    Except if we had a superb military we would not have had a withdraw from Korea with no treaty,a loss and hasty pull out from Vietnam and two 17 year wars in Iraq and Afghanistan??
     
  6. Pro_Line_FL

    Pro_Line_FL Well-Known Member

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    Kicking the can 10 years down the road seems better than opening the can today and dumping the contents on the table.

    Many in US and Israel said Iran was 2 years away from having the nuke before the deal, which means they'd already have it today if it wasn't for the deal. It worked.

    It's common sense to make a deal to buy 10 years to come up with a follow up plan, but no, Trump had to dishonor the deal right there and then without getting anything in return,
     
  7. Pro_Line_FL

    Pro_Line_FL Well-Known Member

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    Context matters. She said that about US stopping atrocities in Bosnia.

    She was not saying we should go to war just because we have a fine military.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2019
  8. robini123

    robini123 Well-Known Member

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    Can you expound upon the point? Are you advocating war just so we can use use our superb military?
     
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  9. APACHERAT

    APACHERAT Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Actually Obama and the Democrats spent eight years using our military for social engineering and allowed our military to deteriorate.

    The U.S. military is no longer that superb military that it once was.
     
  10. robini123

    robini123 Well-Known Member

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    Yet none of this has anything to do with the OP. I am not into the partisan bs or the red herrings.
     
  11. Thedimon

    Thedimon Well-Known Member

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    I’ll answer a question with a question - if this was such an awesome deal then why didn’t Obama get approval from the senate to turn it into a treaty?

    You want a deal that is enforceable - get senate to approve and make it a treaty. Obama didn’t do that. Blame him.
     
  12. ronv

    ronv Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]
     
  13. Thedimon

    Thedimon Well-Known Member

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    If you blame the opposition for not approving your “treaty” than maybe you made a shitty treaty. Wouldn’t you think?
     
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  14. ronv

    ronv Well-Known Member

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    1 - It wasn't.
    2 - It hasn't.
     
  15. ronv

    ronv Well-Known Member

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    No. He did the same thing with a lot of good ideas.
    Still doing it.
     
  16. Thedimon

    Thedimon Well-Known Member

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    Who is “he”? Trump?
    Again, you want an international agreement to stick, you get the approval from senate. That’s the law. Failure to get the approval is on the president who promises things to others without the ability to deliver.
    Or do you think the POTUS should be able to commit the US to any agreement without any checks and balances? Do you think we are so stupid to allow something like that?

    If you want the POTUS to be equivalent to an elected emperor then let’s reverse all court decisions that reversed Trumps executive orders and let’s give him law making power. I have a strong feeling you would prefer checks and balances and stick to current status quo.
     
  17. ronv

    ronv Well-Known Member

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    He is the guy in the picture.
    But you are correct. Things like EO's are often temporary. That's why when Trump leaves office he will be erased.
     
  18. Robert E Allen

    Robert E Allen Well-Known Member

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    I don't think the nuclear deal was a good deal because it gave credibility to the Iranian government which does not deserve it. the whole world should have taken a hard line with Iran. Simply telling them that we will not allow them to nuclearize their military. That should have been the nuclear deal in it's entirety.
    Apart from that the discussion should have been about how to being Iran into being a productive member of the international community.
    1. Stop supporting terrorism
    2. Acknowledge Israel's right to exist.

    One more clarification i don't think any other countries should be allowed nuclear weaponry. This isn't singling out Iran.
     
  19. Robert E Allen

    Robert E Allen Well-Known Member

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    Except that Bosnia was just a distraction . Trying to keep our eyes off Clinton's moral problems.
     
  20. ronv

    ronv Well-Known Member

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    So you would have supported Obama bombing them back into the stone age?
     
  21. Robert E Allen

    Robert E Allen Well-Known Member

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    No, and i think Trump should deescalate.
    But tell Tehran we are watching closely and if you start developing a nuclear weapon expect to lose your reactors.

    Also stop supporting terrorism and make nice with Israel then feel free to join the free markets and make your people rich.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2019
  22. ronv

    ronv Well-Known Member

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    Well, we had 2 out of 3. Now we are 0 for 3.
     
  23. Robert E Allen

    Robert E Allen Well-Known Member

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    We always had 0/3 because Iran nuclear 10 years from now is no better than having them nuclear in years.
    Any deal that allows them nukes is a bad deal no matter how far down the road it's pushed..
    Quite frankly if there is going to be a conflict i say do it now and get it over with.

    That said i still believe we should back off but watch closely.
     
  24. ronv

    ronv Well-Known Member

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    What's that old saying?
    Let's start that war when we get to it?
    Or was it about bridges. :)
     
  25. Robert E Allen

    Robert E Allen Well-Known Member

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    I prefer no war but i am also a student of Billy Mitchell. If there is a war fight it fiercely with everything you have. This keeps the war short and fewer people get hurt as a result.
     

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