How are we better off post Iran deal?

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by robini123, Jun 21, 2019.

  1. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2012
    Messages:
    39,267
    Likes Received:
    8,528
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Stuff and nonsense. Only the Brits sent enough to notice outside of the region. The French sent no one, the Germans a couple of companies to the first Gulf war the se one even less,
     
  2. mitchscove

    mitchscove Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2016
    Messages:
    6,275
    Likes Received:
    3,551
    Trophy Points:
    113
    So you propose that Trump tell the Iranians to return the money Obama gave them and the money they get from sanctions relief to sponsor terrorism, but don't build a bomb? Perhaps he should give the Iranians more money ,,, since it's apparent from the Iranians' desperate attack that Trump's policies are working.
     
  3. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 25, 2012
    Messages:
    37,203
    Likes Received:
    10,141
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    No, it was the fault of obstructionists. As we have clearly seen time and again, McConnell has never been reasonable about compromising and negotiating since Obama was elected, but rather has been obstructing legislation as the "Grim Reaper" in a bid to please his increasingly radical base.

    What is your alternative to the Iran deal? Do you even have one?
     
  4. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 25, 2012
    Messages:
    37,203
    Likes Received:
    10,141
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Billy Mitchell? The guy who was caught cheating to get a world record Donkey Kong score?
     
  5. Daniel Light

    Daniel Light Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2015
    Messages:
    22,191
    Likes Received:
    18,772
    Trophy Points:
    113
    If the Iranians get desperate enough to start a war, do tell, how is that "winning"? We "winning" a $3 trillion dollar bar tab to pay for said war? Oh goody. so much winning. Dead American soldiers - so much more winning.
     
  6. Thedimon

    Thedimon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2018
    Messages:
    6,288
    Likes Received:
    3,415
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I don’t because I don’t care about Iran enough to think something up.
    I’m here just to point out hypocrisy. If Reps were obstructing then what do you call Dems behavior regarding some of Trumps initiatives like the wall?
     
  7. gnoib

    gnoib Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2019
    Messages:
    2,874
    Likes Received:
    1,947
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Yes, as I remember.
    But a ratification in Germany was not needed, because the contract was ratified by the UN and so, so to speak, a world contract binding all UN members ( including the US ).
    One can argue US withdrawal, brakes international law.
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2019
    ronv likes this.
  8. gnoib

    gnoib Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2019
    Messages:
    2,874
    Likes Received:
    1,947
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Germany did not participate in the Bush Jr fiasco.
    German troops are in Afghanistan, NATO mission.
     
  9. Thedimon

    Thedimon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2018
    Messages:
    6,288
    Likes Received:
    3,415
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    American constitution is the supreme law of our country. No other law is above it (in our eyes). Constitution requires senate approval for any treaty to take full effect. Since Obama didn’t get the approval from the senate, from the perspective of our constitutional law the agreement is null and void. Our international allies know these laws. Why they committed to an agreement that didn’t look like it could pass our senate is their own fault. They pay a lot of money to consultants who should have pointed this out to your leaders.

    If you want to blame someone, you can blame your own leaders and Obama for not getting the US fully committed to the agreement through the senate.

    The United States is the country of laws and checks and balances. POTUS is not our king or emperor and whatever he/she does is subject to our system of validation. Any head of state should have a bunch of advisors around him/her who should point out these things before agreement is signed.

    We promised nothing and we didn’t break our word. Your failure to understand our laws is your own damn fault! Before signing anything with the US you should consult a few advisors about are laws and about the ability to enforce the agreements. Your UN can kiss our collective arses - in our eyes the U.N. is not supreme and you can try to come to us and prove us wrong if you have the balls.
     
    ArchStanton likes this.
  10. Robert E Allen

    Robert E Allen Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2018
    Messages:
    12,041
    Likes Received:
    5,741
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Spying.
     
    garyd likes this.
  11. Robert E Allen

    Robert E Allen Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2018
    Messages:
    12,041
    Likes Received:
    5,741
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    No.
     
  12. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2016
    Messages:
    20,973
    Likes Received:
    5,052
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    LOL!!!!!!!! You really don't know how this works, do you. LOL!!!!
     
  13. Robert E Allen

    Robert E Allen Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2018
    Messages:
    12,041
    Likes Received:
    5,741
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I think i know really well how it works.
    I bet we already have assets inside the Iranian nuclear program. We probably know more about it than they do.
     
  14. Robert E Allen

    Robert E Allen Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2018
    Messages:
    12,041
    Likes Received:
    5,741
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male

    Please don't tell me you honestly don't know who Billy Mitchell is. He is an American hero. Anyone who went to grade school in America should know his name.
    He's one of the most influential men of the mid 1900s
     
    BuckyBadger likes this.
  15. gnoib

    gnoib Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2019
    Messages:
    2,874
    Likes Received:
    1,947
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Not quiet, the US signed the UN contract, which was ratified by Congress. So if the UN decides to ratify a contract like that, it becomes legaly binding for all UN members..
    I bet any challenges to the SC would fall flat, because the UN contract was ratified by Congress.
    It is an interesting little tibit, so to speak.
    The Iraq war, by international law, was a unjustified and illegal war of aggression, because the UN, to which the US presented its case, voted it down.
    The Gulf war was a UN sanction war and so legal.
    All that might be completely unimportant to the US domestically, but internationally it has importance.
    I am just waiting that some company and I am surprised none has jet, will take the US in the US to court, over the sanction and how the US is enforcing them.
    It will happen, we are talking millions at stake. As of now no legal action from the US against a foreign company have happened, they just quit doing business with Iran or found a back door.
    One day it will come up.
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2019
  16. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 25, 2012
    Messages:
    37,203
    Likes Received:
    10,141
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    The wall is a retarded idea with a major lack of public support. We neither need nor want an unaffordable physical barrier stretching across thousands of miles of desert to stop people who don't even cross over the vast majority of that distance and stop drugs that are smuggled in through checkpoints and by other forms of transportation that a wall would not impact in the least.
     
  17. Robert E Allen

    Robert E Allen Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2018
    Messages:
    12,041
    Likes Received:
    5,741
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male

    The people of El Paso want a wall. The reason most illegal immigrants come across ports of entry is because of walls.
     
  18. Thedimon

    Thedimon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2018
    Messages:
    6,288
    Likes Received:
    3,415
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    All of this means nothing. The US constitution is the supreme law of our land.
    UN means nothing here. No UN decision will ever survive our Supreme Court.
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2019
  19. Observing

    Observing Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2016
    Messages:
    3,208
    Likes Received:
    865
    Trophy Points:
    113
    It did not 'cost" us anything to pull out of the agreement. Trump is taking a tougher stand on Iran financing terrorists than Obama did. Trumps course of action has not yet yielded the desired results, but pressure is in place. You mention some of the actions that this country has taken on commercial traffic in the region. What does that show you about that regime? Iran want to end the sanctions- dis-avow the hezbollah.
     
  20. Lesh

    Lesh Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2015
    Messages:
    37,757
    Likes Received:
    11,613
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You want hypocrisy?

    Trump kisses Sum Fat Kim's butt and NK HAS bombs...lots of them and they're building more.

    Iran had NONE...and Trump pulled out of a deal that would have kept it that way....and now we're on the verge of a war because of it
     
  21. gnoib

    gnoib Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2019
    Messages:
    2,874
    Likes Received:
    1,947
    Trophy Points:
    113
    But yes.
    But the Constitution ( always with a capital C, please ) allows exactly that. If the Congress ratifies a contract with a country or a institution or what ever, than this contract becomes law, by the power of the law makers.
    It takes 2/3 to ratify.
    Once that happens, that contract becomes part of the law of the land.
    You can challenge it, anybody can, in court. But till than it stands.
    Based on this unchallenged contract, I think you are wrong. The SC would have to decide on the case before it, based on what was ratified in Congress.
    I think the SC would decide against the US.
    UN decision are mostly useless, the blabla house without any powers.
    But than, a contract is a contract and one day that might bite you.
     
  22. gnoib

    gnoib Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2019
    Messages:
    2,874
    Likes Received:
    1,947
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You see you just take the narrow US few.
    This was a contract negotiated by the 5 permanent members of the UN council, plus one Germany.
    Each country had to make concession, including Iran.
    This is not just a US contract with Iran.
    Iran made a contract with the US, China, Russia, France, UK and Germany and than it was ratified by the UN.
     
  23. Robert E Allen

    Robert E Allen Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2018
    Messages:
    12,041
    Likes Received:
    5,741
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    That's false the Iran nuclear deal did not keep iran from getting nukes..

    Appeasement is the worst political strategy. Ww1 and ww2 taught us that in spades
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2019
  24. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2012
    Messages:
    39,267
    Likes Received:
    8,528
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Avoiding war was always Iran's choice not ours Iran does not appear willing to avoid wsr
    Very true inspection at Iran's convenience is no inspection at all.
     
  25. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2012
    Messages:
    39,267
    Likes Received:
    8,528
    Trophy Points:
    113
    As I noted a couple of companies. Not really enough to matter. I don't care how much Euro ass Trump kisses and how nice he is, Europe won't send the sweat off of one soldier's left testical if they think he might have to kill someone or just might get his own ass killed.
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2019

Share This Page