How are we better off post Iran deal?

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by robini123, Jun 21, 2019.

  1. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    Ok that's different. So rather than trash the whole thing, why didn't Donald Dork,The Greatest Negotiator Anywhere Ever, work for a tighter agreement? Not up to the task?
     
  2. Robert E Allen

    Robert E Allen Banned

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    I think Iran has obligations to meet before we can talk to them..
     
  3. robini123

    robini123 Well-Known Member

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    I agree that party affiliation determines how one answers the questions. Human nature is predictable in that if we like somebody we tend to blame others for their failings, and if we dislike someone we tend to blame them for things they are not guilty of. This type of bias is on full display and nearly the status quo in politics. I say we are worse off because I do not recall ships being attacked or a drone being shot down or us coming dangerously close to war during the time the USA was part of the Iran deal.
     
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  4. robini123

    robini123 Well-Known Member

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    I think that type of thinking keeps us lock into conflict and maintains a status quo that has failed for nearly 40 years. What harm does America suffer by face to face talks vs what potential positives are there to be gained?
     
  5. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    Yes, Bush lied and too many trusted him. "Nobody" thought he would lie us into a war. But he did and they believed him and signed onto it.
     
  6. robini123

    robini123 Well-Known Member

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    After nearly 40 years of sanctions I have little hope that sanctions will ever compel Iran to change course. They seem to see it as provocation that justifies their aggression. The only way Iran surrenders their nuclear program is by invasion and occupation, which I doubt many Americans have the stomach for after our failures in Iraq and Afghanistan. I would like to see face to face talks like we have done with North Korea. I do not see ships being attacked, a drone being shot down or coming closer to was as serving our interests.
     
  7. robini123

    robini123 Well-Known Member

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    So are we better off now that we have withdrawn from the Iran deal? If so how? From my POV ships being attacked, a drone shot down and coming close to war is not an improvement over the Iran deal. What are your thoughts on face to face talks like Trump has done with NK?
     
  8. perotista

    perotista Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You're probably right. But I have my doubts that it was the deal that stopped that. I do remember Iran with its speed boats etc. harassing shipping. Having been military all my life, there is quite a lot of stuff kept from the American people. There are times I think we don't care if our enemies know what we are doing or up to, but we do keep it from the American people. Just because we don't hear about something, doesn't mean it didn't happen.
     
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  9. robini123

    robini123 Well-Known Member

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    It has clost us a 100+ million dollar drone, and the trust that we honor our agreements. All Trump has is threats and sanctions which have largely failed for nearly 40 years. What makes you think that threats and sanctions will work now when they have largely failed in the past? As for the attacks on shipping, that was not happening while we were part of the Iran deal.
     
  10. robini123

    robini123 Well-Known Member

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    This is why I would like to see Trump do a face to face meeting and try to work out our differences. There is no way we end Iran’s nuclear ambitions without an invasion and occupation which few Americans would likely support. Either we reconcile our differences or war is imminent at some point in the future. I prefer the former to the latter.
     
  11. Robert E Allen

    Robert E Allen Banned

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    What harm does Iran suffer from ceasing it's murder of Israelis?
     
  12. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Well-Known Member Past Donor

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  13. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    No Bush did not lie. One can be wrong without lying. The one who lied to his own detriment was Saddam Hussein.
     
  14. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Well-Known Member Donor

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    That is false. That is just another lie from Trump. The JCPOA permanently barred Iran from making a nuke. Trump's fans don't want to believe that. It is easier to believe Trump's lie.

    Low grade uranium that cannot possibly be used for a nuke. However, because removed the U.S. from the agreement, that may change soon. On June 27 Iran may surpass limits of its stockpile of enriched uranium set by the 2015 international nuclear deal unless European partners in the agreement do more to help it circumvent U.S. sanctions?

    What I feared a year ago may happen. When Trump withdrew the U.S. from the JCPOA and sharply increased economic sanctions, he practically invited Iran to do the same. We are now seeing the consequences of that decision.

    For more info, see https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...6a9afaa0e3e_story.html?utm_term=.6d3b9b195630
     
  15. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Well-Known Member Donor

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    Who the freak cares?
     
  16. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Well-Known Member Donor

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    "North Korea best not make any more threats to the United States. They will be met with fire and fury like the world has never seen ... he has been very threatening beyond a normal state. They will be met with fire, fury and frankly power the likes of which this world has never seen before."

    Trump urged Venezuela’s military to drop their support for President Nicolas Maduro and allow humanitarian aid into the country. “You will find no safe harbor, no easy exit and no way out. You’ll lose everything,” Trump said.

    Trump warned the United States may launch a devastating military attack on Iran unless it comes to the negotiating table and drops its bid to develop nuclear weapons. “I'm not looking for war, and if there is, it'll be obliteration like you’ve never seen before."

    Is there a pattern here?

    Or maybe not.

    "On Monday they shot down an unmanned drone flying in International Waters. We were cocked & loaded to retaliate last night on 3 different sights when I asked, how many will die. 150 people, sir, was the answer from a General. 10 minutes before the strike I stopped it."

    Is this guy bipolar?
     
  17. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    Total bunk, top to bottom. Bush lied and his rush to invade and warn the UN inspectors to get out for safety sake just 2 days before their report on WMDs was to be released proves it was for Bush to cover his lies and get the invasion DONE. To say he didn't lie is as absurd as it is to say Trump doesn't lie!
     
  18. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Well-Known Member Donor

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    This was written days before Trump withdrew the U.S. from the JCPOA.

    The Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action was adopted in October 2015 and formally implemented on Jan. 16, 2016, by the five permanent members of the United Nations Security Council — China, France, Russia, Britain and the United States — and Germany and Iran.

    Iran agreed to constraints meant to ensure that its nuclear program will be used only for peaceful purposes, such as energy production. In exchange, the United States, the European Union and the United Nations agreed to lift a broad range of sanctions on Iran. U.S. allies say the Iran deal has helped maintain stability. Critics of the deal say that the broad lifting of sanctions has enabled Iran to increase its influence in a volatile region and that the accord does not restrict Iran from developing ballistic missiles. [But they don't question the permanent nuclear ban]

    "Nevertheless, President Trump's statement indicates either abject confusion over the parameters of the JCPOA or a willful misinterpretation of that deal," said Alexandra Bell, senior policy director at the Center for Arms Control and Non-Proliferation. "Either way, it is dangerous, as Iran will never be 'free to go ahead and create nuclear weapons.' "

    As a signatory to the Non-Proliferation Treaty, Iran has pledged not to develop nuclear weapons — ever. In agreeing to the JCPOA, Iran recommitted itself to the Non-Proliferation Treaty, Bell said. "The NPT is of indefinite duration and serves as the underpinning for the entire global nonproliferation regime,"
    she said.


    https://www.chicagotribune.com/nation-world/ct-fact-check-trump-iran-deal-20180508-story.html

    Countless sources say the same thing. Too many people believed Trump's lies. The world may pay a price for that.
     
  19. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Well-Known Member Donor

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    Does any of that matter now? I am only asking because we have a serious crisis on our hands right now and we have a fool at the helm.
     
  20. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    Yes, and I see a pattern.
     
  21. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    Apparently the person I responded to.
     
  22. Pro_Line_FL

    Pro_Line_FL Well-Known Member

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    Seems like a moot point now that Trump already folded.
     
  23. Pro_Line_FL

    Pro_Line_FL Well-Known Member

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    How did France lose 44 KIA in Afghanistan without sending anyone?
     
  24. ronv

    ronv Well-Known Member

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    Sure. They put those 17,000 centrifuges on a truck and just drive them around.
    Oh wait. That was Iraq.

    upload_2019-6-24_5-33-48.jpeg
     
  25. Daggdag

    Daggdag Well-Known Member

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    The OP is under the impression that any of the Trump supporters he is talking two actually thinks that the Iran deal was successful. One of Trump's "alternative facts" (aka LIES was that Iran wasn't living up to the agree prior to the US pulling out. He claimed to have evidence of this, but never released it, and he was contradicted by not only our own intelligence community, but by those of every single country that signed the deal.

    However, to Trumpers, anything that contradicts Trump has to be false, or more accurately, part of a vast Hillary Clinton lead conspiracy, which includes world leaders, members of both parties, and various others, to destroy Trump. They don't care what anyone but Trump says. He is their all knowing, all seeing, all powerful god-king, and anyone who disagrees with him is trying to destroy America.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2019

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