How Brexit is our new PM, Theresa May?

Discussion in 'Western Europe' started by James7, Jul 13, 2016.

  1. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Believing the rhetoric of a politician. Learnt nothing yet?
     
  2. Moi621

    Moi621 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    YES
    Faith counts.
    Reagan, the Teflon President, evoked a faith that made the gears of the American economy work again,
    then came Bush 1
     
  3. cerberus

    cerberus Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Whatever possessed the woman to give a berk like Johnson such a high-profile portfolio but sack Gove? Surely we're not landed with yet another prime minister with a seriously flawed sense of judgement! Seems to be a prerequisite for the job!
     
  4. mihapiha

    mihapiha Active Member

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    I think it ought not to be too surprising, after all, the system in the UK isn't really a proper democracy. To be fair, neither is our's. Britain is still a constitutional monarchy, the people who make laws aren't really elected either.

    In the UK, both ministers and civil servants act on behalf of the government. In fact, in many instances, the details of a bill are left to experts within a civil service department who are there to work for the government. Parliamentary Counsels (government lawyers) are responsible for actually drafting the bill. Civil servants are employees of the Crown and not of the British parliament. As of October 2013, there are approximately 412,000 full-time equivalent (447,000 headcount) civil servants in the Home Civil Service. These people have not been elected, "but who have the power to impose on us laws we haven't debated, without the means of democratically appealing" them (to quote the Brexit movie). "Her Majesty's Civil Service"-employees is just one example of the UK's monarchal heritage.
     
  5. Moi621

    Moi621 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I like it.
    Sort of like a Brit Donald Trump as Foreign Minister / Secretary of State.


    Bravo Neo Nationalism. No Right Wing needed. Just an urge to protect one's nation from economic invasion.
    Looking forward to witnessing anti international inc. activities as well as Trumpesque limits on FREE TRADE.

    The Polish Worker, works cheaper than the Brit Worker. Hardly fair to call them equals.
    As a member of the EU, Poland gets to make and sell French Cheeses. French cheese makers are NOT happy.

    Internationalism sells out the developed nation's "labor" and industry to the profits of . . . . . (like a Marxist, Leninist nightmare)

    Tell Moi it ain't so.
    Ron Paul was correct.


    Moi :oldman:


    r > g



    :nana: :flagcanada:
     
  6. cerberus

    cerberus Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    One of the placements is Minister for Women and Equalities. That's only once removed in an upward direction from Minister for Paper-clips and Sellotape Dispensers. :mrgreen:
     
  7. Baff

    Baff Well-Known Member

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    Then we discovered oil.


    Ain't life a (*)(*)(*)(*)(*).
    Had us right where you wanted us good medicine in hand and then... whoopsy we got better and went native again.

    You can't train lions to be mice.
    (Or savages like us to be citizens).
     
  8. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes, and most of it was Scottish oil. Now had this oil been used to upgrade our industries and invest for the future that would have been one thing but No, Thatcher wasted it on unemployment and sickness benefit which she trapped people in until 2008 when now we are moving towards absolute poverty with some people already dying.

    That's all Scottish oil did for the UK.

    So, Britain entered the EEC as the poor man of Europe and rose to the 4th or 5th best economy, you believe because of oil.

    Now Britain is leaving the EU and her oil is worth nothing. By your argument Britain has had it.
     
  9. cerberus

    cerberus Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    She gave a resounding 'YES' when she was asked in PMQs yesterday if she'd push the nuclear button. I don't believe it; I believe she was 'getting at' Corbyn. Looks like we've got another lying PM on our hands!
     
  10. Mandelus

    Mandelus Well-Known Member

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    Personally, I find the whole drivel and the slogans of Brexit people amusing.
    I’m for sure no friend of the EU as it exists and I have much understanding for these people, but it is frightening how easily someone can sell so many British people lies, perhaps because they have always been skeptical to the EU.

    Lie #01
    “We spend every week 350 Million GBP to Brussel, will be better to spend into our NHS…”

    First of all it is in fact an amount of 110 Million GBP, because those 250 Million GBP which come each week from Brussel to the UK were not counted of course.
    Secondly it was amazing how fast Farage and others stepped back from this slogan after the referendum was won… because this could not be hold in reality as promise

    Lie #02
    *It is time to get back control on our borders”

    Reality is that the UK never lost any control of their borders. The open borders inside the EU, for example from Germany to France are given because they signed the so called Schengen agreement. Fact is that Britain never signed this agreement and so it only their own decision how much they control their borders and not any kind of EU issue! In clear word, no one in Brussel had only a spark to decide about it and if the UK want to have a green border from Northern Ireland into Republic of Ireland it is their own decision only … as well too if they want to build up there a “Berlin Wall”.

    Lie #03
    “With an exit from the EU we are over with these flood of EU legislations and regulations, but we will have further free market access as usual”

    Not much could be more wrong as that statement! If you want to have further access to the EU market as always, you have to follow further this “flood” of legislations same way as before … but with one very important difference:
    As Non EU member you have lost any Voice and decision making for this “flood” … but only to accept and to follow as Norway and Switzerland have to do!

    Lie #04
    “With an exit we are over with the free movement legislation of EU citizens, means we are over to take so many people from Eastern EU countries as for example Poland”

    First of all the issue is no one way ticket, means if you are maybe over with these many EU people coming to the UK, but you are over too with the free movement of UK citizens within the EU. Who says “A” must only take “B” as consequence.
    Secondly, you still reduced this legislation with some §§ to make this free movement more difficult as it is reverse, but obviously this was not clear shown or it was really not enough to accept for many.
    Finally, in all the discussion about foreigners living and working in the UK and that taking away jobs for natives etc., 1 thing is not included: a) most jobs were free and no one wanted to have it, b) these foreigners created new jobs too

    Lie #05
    “An exit will cost us lesser, but will give us more money and jobs in balance”

    Really? Who told that taxes will be raised again after referendum? Aside this, it was also told that it will have positive impact on the financial place London and looking on the news who all will leave London now completely, moving company headquarter from the UK off into another EU member or minimum reducing the offices … well… has no impact of income and jobs?
    Also, will be interesting about market prices for food in future, when the huge imports from EU members become more expensive.

    Lie #06
    “Others will follow our example and leave the EU too”

    Maybe … Hungary for example is not impossible. But what these Brexit people had not in mind was that Scotland and Northern Ireland think seriously about to leave the UK and so transforming “Great Britain” into “Smaller Britain” with Wales and England only!
    Aside this, if they will really leave the UK, it will have a deep impact on British economy and I speak not only about the oil fields in Northern Sea.
     
  11. cerberus

    cerberus Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I predict the imminent break-up of the United Kingdom (and Brenda won't think much of that! [​IMG] She likes her Scotch castles) The Scots are hell-bent on joining the EU (I don't think they realise yet that it's gonna cost them big bucks! :roll: ) and they need their independence to do so. Also as I've said, Sturgeon won't have Trident based at one of her lochs, so where off the coast of England will we be able to park 3 nuclear subs and their associated infrastructure? Not in the English Channel I hope! I don't want them spoiling my view of it! [​IMG] . And we might have a Welsh prime minister soon. It's all happening - I can't keep up with it.
     
  12. cerberus

    cerberus Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The Moral Maze on Radio 4 tonight is going to discuss exactly this. Michael Burke in a preview on Today just now mentioned the futility of Trident, in that if we suffer a pre-emptive strike nobody will be around - including May herself - to give the order to retaliate. The program will be very interesting, revealing, and very ominous when it exposes just how dumb our political class is. They'll inflict upon us the biggest and most expensive white elephant in the history of mankind.
     
  13. Oddquine

    Oddquine Well-Known Member

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    Yep....exactly. That's why I'd much rather, instead of having a Parliament filled with political careerists, who have never done a real day's work in their lives, voted in by a minority, have a parliament voted in by nobody, but chosen by someone on TV by shutting his/her eyes and sticking a pin in each area's voters' roll the requisite number of times to produce 650 names, who are then obliged to sit in Westminster for a maximum term of five years and produce brainfarts.for the civil service to either implement or not.

    It couldn't possibly be worse than the situation we have now, could it? And might even be better. :cool:
     
  14. Fugazi

    Fugazi New Member Past Donor

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    If Scotland want to break away then I say let them, they will find they do not have the money to run the country and will, like Greece, have to go cap in hand to the EU to bail them out, neither will they be able to keep the pound as their currency, EU ministers have made it quite clear that Scotland would have to apply for membership just like any other country .. the EU membership is (was) for the UK, not England, Wales, NI & Scotland separately.

    As to Trident, Sturgeon cannot block the subs being stationed as long as Scotland is part of the UK, she, nor the Scottish Parliament have the authority to do so .. defence of the UK still comes under Westminster and is not, nor will not, be devolved.
     
  15. mihapiha

    mihapiha Active Member

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    I personally believe that the problem is democracy in itself. Don't get me wrong, it is still the least "worst" system, however it is bad, because the electorate is uninformed and misinformed. How can you run any government if you have to seek the people's approval first. It takes too much time to explain and convinces 50% of the people that something completely necessary is actually necessary...
     
  16. Oddquine

    Oddquine Well-Known Member

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    We'll be fine, but I do appreciate your permission to have another referendum.

    Given the UK doesn't have the money to run the country (as evidenced by a £1 trillion plus debt and an annual budget deficit still increasing it) why would money be a problem for Scotland, if it becomes independent if isn't for the UK. After all we are a country of 5.3 million with pretty much the same resources as the UK, with 63 million has now...although, luckily for us, a fair chunk of the UK's resources will leave with us.

    Nah.we wouldn't go the the EU, we'd go to the IMF like the UK did in the 1970s.

    We can keep the pound for our currency if we want. Nothing Westminster can do about it.

    EU membership speed would depend on having a referendum before Brexit actually takes place (and getting a YES vote) and negotiations between Westminster and Scotland over the UK membership. The EU, if you are going to believe the papers, are kindly disposed to not making it overly difficult for us.

    Well, obviously a Scottish FM can't block Westminster keeping their subs in Scotland....which is a big part of the reason we want independence.
     
  17. lunecat

    lunecat Active Member

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    Good question, how Brexit are our the new Cabinet? And how Brexit are the intentions of our UK Government & Parliment.

    Well I hope they are able to deliver a good Brexit conclusion. For me it was all about Sovereignty, & immigration being a secondary issue. So just as long as we get our sovereignty over our law making & political decision making back to our own sovereignty parliment then the issue of immigration is just about "numbers".

    I am perfectly happy to leave the EU single market as I'm not hung up on that issue.

    But how Brexit are our Politicians? Time will tell....
     
  18. cerberus

    cerberus Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    And may I be the first to say I hope you get it - and soon! [​IMG]

    PS You do realise there's gonna be an annual subscription I trust, and that you'll be able to afford to pay up? Your EU masters will take a dim view if you default on it, you know - especially if they have to bail you out a few times! [​IMG]
     
  19. cerberus

    cerberus Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    A market of 500 million consumers who are broke, and can't afford to buy. Some 'market'!!
     
  20. Oddquine

    Oddquine Well-Known Member

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    I do....I'm not daft. It is a percentage of a country's GNI....and a share of VAT...the bigger the GNI, the more is contributed.

    Not really a problem, because if you are going to believe all the doomsayers re Scotland's economy after Independence, our GNI is only going to be about 50p anyway...so we'll rake in the benefits without the costs. :wink:
     
  21. cerberus

    cerberus Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Hey, you might even become a net beneficiary member state? Now I can see where you're coming from. Not for nothing are you known as 'canny Scots'! :mrgreen:
     
  22. Fugazi

    Fugazi New Member Past Donor

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    You don't need my permission .. however you do need Westminster's permission ... good luck with that.

    A proportion of that debt would transfer to Scotland should they get another referendum and vote to leave the UK, around £23 billion I believe is the figure, and what makes you think you won't have to pay for any infrastructure paid for by the UK government that enables you to extract those resources, add to this that Scotland is £15 billion in the red and its deficit is almost twice as large as the UK as a whole, and it doesn't look that rosy really.

    Yes, I'm sure Scotland would be happy to In effect hand over control of the country’s finances to the German Finance Minister and his cronies in the European Central Bank and the IMF.

    Wrong. Scotland would have to apply as an independent country to join the EU and have to meet the requirements, ie, having the Euro as it's currency.

    As soon as Scotland votes for independence from the rest of the UK ANY treaties etc with the EU are null and void, they apply ONLY to the UK as a whole, as Jose Manuel Barroso stated in 2012 - "Although there is no certainty, it appears an independent Scotland would not automatically become a member of the EU but would instead have to re-apply and complete a process of accession... A new independent state would, by the fact of its independence, become a third country with respect to the EU and the Treaties would no longer apply on its territory." and even IF Scotland could be "fast-tracked" via Article 48 of the Treaty on the European Union, Scotland would still have no choice but to adopt the Euro as it's currency unless they could negotiate their own opt-out which os very, very unlikely.

    no problem, just think of all those jobs being created in England/Wales or NI building a new base, and the loss of revenue losing the base would cause Scotland.
     
  23. diamond lil

    diamond lil Well-Known Member

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    We already had sovereignty.

    https://notesfromnorthbritain.wordpress.com/

    This blogger is concerned with Scottish independence, but he explains sovereignty very well.
     
  24. lunecat

    lunecat Active Member

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    I have read that blog & I am astonished that you think your post (based entirely on that blog) in some way exonerates the idea that we have lost our sovereignty. You have & I suspect continue to delude yourself that signing a treaty such as the Lisbon treaty (only introduced by the EU because they could not get it introduced via a free referendum vote by the French & Belgium people on the proposal of an EU constitution) .... (please learn your history before posting & trying to make "phoney" informed comments); the EU is wholey undemocractic.

    There is a "creeping" loss of sovereignty introduced via such treaty. So yes, as your posted blog makes clear; the heads of State signed these
    treaty into effect, but what he/she fails to say is that there is a back door to the unknown consequences to signing such treaties & those have more & more come to effect us. This just goes to show what pathetic amateurs many of our political leaders are.

    I note that in that blog he/she says " If (as we do) we have the right to leave the EU" Quite RIGHT!!!! We do & we have voted to do so!

    Now we must keep the pressure on the "May" government to ensure there is no 'back paddling' on the will of the people of the United Kingdom.
     
  25. diamond lil

    diamond lil Well-Known Member

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    It doesn't exonerate it. It explains very clearly how we haven't lost our sovereignty

    Nonsense. We haven't lost any of our sovereignty.


    Absolutely not. The EU is not a sovereign state. The UK is a sovereign state.

    It strikes me that both the Nationalists’ and the Brexiteers’ claims to sovereignty are misplaced and, moreover, are misplaced for the same basic reason.

    The latter is you.

    He. He is Professor Adam Tomkins, a professor of public law at the University of Glasgow.

    Which is exactly his point. We were able to choose.

    He knows what he's talking about, unlike you.


    The will of the people could change quite easily.
     

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