Discussion in 'Middle East' started by zalekbloom, Apr 25, 2018.
It is based on long time study. I am unaware of any outrages Hamas has done for a very long time. Originally Hamas did not buy the 2 state solution because they did not believe the Israelis were genuine. You can read about that here
It is basically to do with the two State solution. The EU put in Alistaire Crooke and he was working well with them as above link when suddenly one day Jack Straw appeared in the room and told him Bush had pressured Blair who had pressured the German's to stop working to get Hamas ready for talks on a two state solution. This was at a point when Crooke had made great progress and believed he could get Hamas to the table to genuinely work on it. At that very point it was decided instead to declare Hamas a terrorist group - something which would mean they could not be involved in talks which meant there could be no 2 State Solution. Instead they decided that Israel could build more prisons and put Political activists in and hold without trial. They also gave Israel freedom to assassinate Palestinians particularly political leaders which is why they are very thin on the ground and to use her army to wage war against what was basically a guerilla army (Hamas). This was done after Fatah had agreed to police the West bank so that there were no protests having been told that if they did this, they would get their own state.
The accepting of the 2 State Solution made things far harder for Palestinians. Many who had previously worked in Israel lost their jobs as Israel apparently preparing for the Palestinian State. Despite being called Barack's glorious offer in 2000, this was in no way something which the Palestinians could accept. They had already agreed to accept the right of Israel on 78% of their ancient homeland in return for their own viable congruous state on the remaining 22% and this despite what you may have heard, came no where near that and would have left Israeli soldiers inside the so called Palestinian State. There was an offer later at Taba which Arafat agreed could be the basis of discussion but Barak lost his position as PM and it was thrown in the bin - despite it always being blamed on the Palestinians for refusing.
Sharon then went up to Al Aqsa and this enraged the Palestinians. They believed they had been conned with the 2 State solution and the second Intifada began.
So all that had passed by the time Crooke was working with Hamas but the people of Gaza were firing rockets all the time at Israel. Sharon decided to take settlers out of Gaza because it was too expensive looking after them and to build them up instead in the West Bank.
The US decided there should be elections and Hamas won but not enough for an overall majority. The EU, US and everyone else stopped funding to Gaza for voting for Hamas although the US had agreed they could fight in the election. Eventually Hamas managed to create a coalition government. Neither Israel nor the US wanted this so they gave arms to some in Fatah and arranged for them to fight Hamas to take over Government. Sad for them Hamas won. This created a split between the two main Palestinian parties again very helpful for making sure there could be negotiations. Oh when Hamas was fighting the election they said they would be prepared to be in negotiations with Israel re the two state solution. This was before the US had managed to get them declared a terrorist group. Regardless Israel refused to talk to them. No 2 state solution could happen without Hamas.
After some years Crises Group warned Israel that by not speaking to Hamas and giving the people any chance of the siege ending and being able to get an economic life and be part of the world again, people were getting very upset and joining more Salafi type groups. They said if Israel did not talk to Hamas it was very likely they would grow and Gaza would become much more difficult. Israel ignored this and developed a policy of what she calls 'mowing the lawn' in Gaza every few years - that is killing thousands including last time over 500 children. Hamas keeps ISIS out of Gaza. They hate each other. It is a very long time since Hamas, apart from when Israel declares war on them, did anything more ruthless than firing a few rockets which land in fields when Israel has been killing Palestinians so the way the extreme Right talk of Hamas is not true though it is true that Hamas will not lay down arms until there is a workable deal.
Hamas is just a word use to allow Israel to do whatever she wants to the people of Gaza. It was not Hamas who came up with the idea of the Great March. It apparently has been suggested by Gazans for a long time and only after discovering they were going to do it regardless did Hamas get in and police it and so on....but all you here is 'it is Hamas' Everything is Hamas.
The Christian Right of the US are very involved in this. They do not want a two state solution and have been working to make it not so since they heard it was happening. They are 100 million votes in the US and that explains the US policy towards Israel for which they also destroyed the ME with Clean Break.
a few sources This one talks about what I was talking about earlier in that it was when it was obvious that Hamas could be involved in talks for a two state solution, they were declared a terrorist group and the occupation which was supposed to be temporary and to be resulting by 2000 in a State for the Palestinians was made permanent using the excuse of temporariness for Israel to get what she puts more facts on the ground.
The below article is questioning the US's part in destroying the 2 State Solution
The Two-State Solution: An Autopsy
That is by Henry Siegman, an American Jew one time leader of one of their largest Jewish Organisations.
He does not believe Hamas is as portrayed. If you ever get into reading and want to read more, he is a very good read.
I believe throughout Hamas has been used to avoid the two state solution and for Israel to get more land for what the Christian Zionists demand and extremist Israelis also want which is all 'Greater Israel'. The name Hamas allows any violence against the people of Gaza.
This is very rough due to the time I have
I do agree that Hamas has been demonized completely. You claim it is undeserved. The Palestinian civil war and the oppression by the Al-Qassam brigades, would suggest that they are far from the reasonable and innocent political organization you would have us all believe.
OTOH, being Islamist they finally figured out that continually screeching liberation of all of historic palestine was a losing position. So take a page outta mo's book wrt treating with the jews and lie your arse off.
Not that I think for a moment that the Likud regime is at all interested in peace until they've achieved more of their annexation goals in the WB.
It was not Hamas who started the civil war which appears to have been arranged by the Americans. All people have a right to fight for their lives. Vanity Fair had an article on that
and it is also mentioned in this article I left above
By the way I am in no way saying that Hamas is blameless particularly in the early years. What I am suggesting is that Hamas has become the bogey man which allows for Israel to do anything she wants and that by creating Hamas as the bogeyman a way was found to avoid the two state solution.
For every rocket Hamas fires at Israel, Israel should fire one back into Gaza.
Separate names with a comma.