How can you be proud of your political party?

Discussion in 'Political Science' started by Greenleft, Jan 11, 2021.

  1. Greenleft

    Greenleft Well-Known Member

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    From the outset I must confess that this question is directed primarily (but not exclusively) at American political parties.

    I understand the appeal of political parties. They are an easy organizational tool to determine the direction a government is working toward and it helps politically participating people find other like minded people to work with.

    But they can also raise issues that people are pressured to promote the agendas of their leaders or work with people you have little in common with JUST so you can be part of the political process because there is little alternative method.

    This is especially true for big tent/catch all parties like The Democrats and Republicans in the United States. In countries with multi party politics, it's easier to be comfortable within your political party. Many parties are democracies within democracies where the membership have much say within how the political party is run. Not so with my country unfortunately. Here in Indonesia, political parties come and go like seasons and are primarily one man/woman vehicles for rich individuals to gain power.

    Anyway, with a NO party system (as is the case in the US state Nebraska and the territories of northern Canada), it might seem at first uncertain if a government is headed in a conservative or a progressive direction, but that's OK. Each individual legislator is free to form their own political opinion on a case by case basis. No left-right nonsense.

    With no parties, that would mean no party list electoral system. But that does not mean an unfair voting system for representative democracy. There is of course the ranked choice system to name but one example.

    Anyway up until recently, being a Republican or Democrat did not really mean much. You may make the arguments that conservative or progressive politics are what it means to be a patriot, but you don't need to wear a red or blue jersey while promoting your beliefs.

    At the end of the day, how can you call yourself a proud Democrat or a proud Republican as opposed to a Proud American? I can say the same for other countries, and if there are any non Americans who wish to answer this question from their political perspective, please do so.
     
  2. Chrizton

    Chrizton Well-Known Member

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    I have never understood the mentality myself but I don't associate myself with either party. Particularly living in the South, I am well aware that the democrats history with race relations is a pretty damned dark one. I stopped and read a historical sign today in my city about its worst race riot in the city's history. Happened after the civil war when the local democrats unhappy that the new black majority ousted them from local power began shooting into crowds of them and began the push to create some of the state's most regressive Jim Crow laws to get back into power.

    Power is what it really all comes down to. Neither party is particularly responsible with it but they would both sell their soul to have it.
     
  3. The Rhetoric of Life

    The Rhetoric of Life Well-Known Member

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    It's not Communist.

    Bare in mind, I joined when the opposition was Labour's Momentum movement and the country was in a bit of a stalemate and I felt it could have gone either way, so I sided with freedom.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2021
  4. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Parties are lazy. Not something to be proud of. But since people are lazy too, parties are necessary.
     
  5. Curious Always

    Curious Always Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I loathe them both, about equally.

    Currently, I'm more mad at team red, but a short two years ago, I was more mad at team blue.

    They take turns being the biggest jerks.
     
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  6. Capt Nice

    Capt Nice Well-Known Member

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    I'm 86 and my entire life I had been an independent until this past year. So, being a member of a political party is a new experience for me. Now being a registered Democrat and having witnessed what the Republican party has become in the last four years I'm proud I haven't been taken in by a con man that anyone could recognize if they hadn't been brain washed.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2021
  7. AlpinLuke

    AlpinLuke Well-Known Member

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    What I don't grasp about American political life is that how they don't get bored to see always the same two parties.
    In Italy we create new parties every year! I cannot say this with total accuracy, but I'm almost sure that here, in occasion of general elections we have been seeing new parties for at least the last 30 years.

    Personally, at almost 49, I can say to have voted for ... 5 different parties [in the same political area, but different an they were all newcomers ...].
    And the last one has been the most successful newcomer ever: it got the government and it's still at the government.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2021
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  8. Greenleft

    Greenleft Well-Known Member

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    I should also point out that when people say they are proud of their party's accomplishments, they also have to own their party's shortcomings. Let's examine the Democrats and Republicans.

    Republicans can boast about Reagan's return to economic confidence in the 1980's and Lincoln setting free the slaves. They also have to own the Harding's teapot dome scandal, Nixon's Watergate, Herbert Hoover and the Great Depression, and Bush's Hurricane Katrina debacle.

    Democrats can boast about the Civil rights Act and FDR's New Deal. But they also have to own President Buchanan (almost always considered the worst President) and their long history of racism including: Andrew Jackson's displacement of native Americans, Andrew Johnson's refusal to extend rights to freed slaves and FDR's internment camps for Japanese Americans.

    Sure, that's how politics works. Human beings are not perfect. And even if the former party leader is often viewed as some kind of saint: Mandela's ANC in South Africa and Ghandi's INC in India, the leaders that come after them often don't live up to their high expectations. Which is why you should not attach your identity with a political party just because your parents always voted that way.
     
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  9. AlpinLuke

    AlpinLuke Well-Known Member

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    In US the real problem is that there is a part of the electorate who doesn't change opinion.
    To be an elector of a party in US is like to be a fan of a soccer [football!] team in Italy: you can change your wife, you can change your political party, you can change your religion ... but if you're a real Italian you will never change your soccer team!

    I was born as a Juventus fan and I will die as a Juventus fan. Period. In the meanwhile I've changed religion, political party, several women ...

    In any culture, you know, there is a popular mania ... in Italy it's "calcio" [soccer / football], in US it seems to be political membership.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2021
  10. The Rhetoric of Life

    The Rhetoric of Life Well-Known Member

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    Easily, it took us out of the EU and into the CPTPP.

    Did it ask us if we wanted to leave the EU?
    Yes.
    Did it ask us if we wanted to join the CPTPP?
    It must have knew better given the necessity for our survival staking our future not being confined to Europe and European politics than to go through another referendum.
    Also, since CPTPP is more about trade and EU is more about federalism from a foreign power, I guess that reason might be the reason for not giving us a referendum, but it is the party that took us out of the EU and into the CPTPP.

    But then, we got a referendum to join the EEC back in the day, and that was before all the federalism nonsense from a foreign power hostile to the outside world when the EEC became the EU.

    But...
    We can't risk a 'No' if we were given a referendum on CPTPP membership, and this government, the government comprised of the political party I've affiliated myself with (card carrying member), have staked my country's future as being global and outside of Europe, so we cannot risk this so have not only taken us out of the EU, but into the CPTPP to guarantee leaving the EU's a success.

    It also coined the phrase Brexit.

    If China join the CPTPP and the US doesn't, I'd want another Brexit, and to hell with trading blocs.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2021
  11. The Rhetoric of Life

    The Rhetoric of Life Well-Known Member

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    I remember the bar was low when I joined my party, but, it is what it is.
     
  12. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    For a non American you sure seem interested in American politics when actually, the political party situation in the US is probably the most boring in the Western world since we've had the same two parties locked in a dance of death for 150 years.

    Meanwhile, Nigel Farage formed UKIP about 6 weeks before the Brexit vote and won. Far more interesting story in my opinion.
     
  13. yabberefugee

    yabberefugee Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    In my opinion the parties are just tools in which to organize. You are right as it was said, that for many years both parties in America have been establishment controlled. There have been struggles in each as they fight to throw off establishment control (the swamp). As we come closer to that conclusion, there will be a defined choice. Does America go left, or return to it's traditional values.
    As of now, it seems that $$ still controls things.
     
  14. Hey Nonny Mouse

    Hey Nonny Mouse Active Member

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    Being proud of the actions of someone else doesn't make sense.

    Loyalty to political parties is a bad thing. Loyalty to political principles is a good thing.
     
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