How do you explain consciousness?

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by Dirty Rotten Imbecile, Mar 21, 2017.

  1. Dirty Rotten Imbecile

    Dirty Rotten Imbecile Well-Known Member

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    Our brain is the most complex thing in the universe that we know of - except the universe itself.

    Its purpose is to regulate our body in conjunction with our central nervous system but it also produces a complex consciousness - awareness of our surroundings, awareness of ourselves, our own mortality and the ability to make complex calculations.

    How do you explain it? Is consciousness a state of matter? Is it "the soul"?

    Here is a fascinating TED talk and an interesting article.



    http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/next/physics/physicists-say-consciousness-might-be-a-state-of-matter/
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2017
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  2. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    It's simple. Note that a physical action like a blow to the head can eliminate consciousness.

    Consciousness is an activity of the brain.
     
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  3. Diuretic

    Diuretic Well-Known Member

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    I think it's a subjective experience of brain function - adding to what Kode has already stated.
     
  4. Swensson

    Swensson Devil's advocate

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    I'm with previous replies. I believe consciousness is a process that takes place in our brain. It's not so dissimilar to a computer program, although the difference in hardware of course has some impact on performance.
     
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  5. KAMALAYKA

    KAMALAYKA Banned

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    Consciousness is a product of sensory input over millions upon millions of years of evolution. To prove my point, we can point to simpler animals with simpler nervous systems and see evidence of little or no self-awareness, much in the same way we can find animals with primitive eyes or primitive limbs.
     
  6. Dirty Rotten Imbecile

    Dirty Rotten Imbecile Well-Known Member

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    What did you think of the way the guy in the video speaks of a "unit of consciousness" and talks bout plants as having basic consciousness since they are able to detect the location of water etc?

    How do you account for the complexity of the human mind when considering the second law of thermodynamics? How does something like the human mind - or even the leaf on a tree - develop and evolve in a universe where everything is moving toward greater entropy?
     
  7. DPMartin

    DPMartin Active Member

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    Consciousness; The OED’s principle def’s are
    †1. Joint or mutual knowledge. Obs. rare.
    2. (Also in early use, consciousness to oneself.) Internal knowledge or conviction; knowledge as to which one has the testimony within oneself; esp. of one's own innocence, guilt, deficiencies, etc. Cf. conscious 3.
    3. The state or fact of being mentally conscious or aware of anything. Cf. conscious 6.
    4. a. Philos. The state or faculty of being conscious, as a condition and concomitant of all thought, feeling, and volition; ‘the recognition by the thinking subject of its own acts or affections’ (Hamilton).

    Hence what is one Conscious of?
    And awareness and or knowledge of is required. Hence if one isn't aware of anything is he alive? But does this mean one does or doesn’t exist, or is it just a matter of who or what is aware of you? If no one in the world is aware of you, or your existence are you alive? Or are you just dead to the world, and still exist?

    In the same sense, if God isn’t aware of you, or doesn’t know you? Then are you alive to Him? It doesn’t matter if you don’t know Him or are not aware of His existence because He choices where a life in His creation exists. And that could be where no one is aware of your existence, yet you just might still exist. And yes, God knows all, but that is in the context of what He says will come to pass. A sculptor is aware of everything he does in his work, but some of the stone is discarded and forgotten and not ever remembered and the finished stone is held and kept to admire and enjoy forever. Hence the sculptor knows all because his will is fulfilled and kept and that is all that remains.

    But again, in the context of that said fulfillment in what the Lord may know or be Conscious of as living or alive:
    Jesus says:

    Luk 13:24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. 25 When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are: 26 Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets. 27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity. 28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.

    So when for example someone says there is no God, the truth is they are not conscious of Him though they may have heard of Him.

    All living communicate to the living and are aware of their surroundings, but if they are not in the presence of, or are not communicated to, then they can’t be aware of, or especially know of or be conscious of.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2017
  8. sdelsolray

    sdelsolray Well-Known Member

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    Competence without comprehension exists throughout carbon-based life on Earth. Of course there is competence with comprehension as well, but that is less common.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2017
  9. KAMALAYKA

    KAMALAYKA Banned

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    1. I can't comment on a video I didn't watch.

    2. Everything in your post is woo-woo.
     
  10. Dirty Rotten Imbecile

    Dirty Rotten Imbecile Well-Known Member

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    Woo-woo?
     
  11. Maximatic

    Maximatic Well-Known Member

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    I don't know.

    You don't need that qualifier "except the universe itself". The brain is much more complex than the Universe, it's just that much of the Universe is beyond our reach to study.
     
  12. dadoalex

    dadoalex Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    And yet, a brain scan of that unconscious person would reveal that cognitive brain activity, that is activities that require comprehension, imagination, and memory, continues.

    I believe the question is about more than the physiological definition of "conscious" or "unconscious."

    Is a flower "conscious?" Of course not but, there is scientific work indicating that plants respond positively to speech and music. So....
     
  13. thoughtprocess

    thoughtprocess Well-Known Member

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    A blow to the brain I don't think eliminates it merely one loses sight as well as our other senses. The brain is still active still conscious of what is going on as it pertains to your body. But that explanation is just responding to your definition. I think consciousness is a creation of the brain in order for evolution and to evolve as a human you need intelligence. So I believe it is not only awareness thru sensory fuctions but also intelligence.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2017
  14. Dirty Rotten Imbecile

    Dirty Rotten Imbecile Well-Known Member

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    A flower is not sentient, not self-aware. A flower has an element of consciousness; it can detect where water is and grow in that direction. It responds to an environmental stimulation. Similarly, when a car is in my left hand blind spot a sensor on my car detects it and lights up a symbol on my side view mirror.

    The human body has myriad sensors that unite to give our brain a lot of data about its environment. A unique addition to that is our cerebral cortex which is more advanced than that of other species. Sentience, self awareness the ability to reason, calculate etc is an emergent property or a set of emergent properties resulting from advanced evolution of this system.

    It's a fascinating, complex system. Why does it exist? How do such complex systems evolve in a universe that has a second law of thermal dynamics where everything is moving toward increased entropy?
     
  15. sdelsolray

    sdelsolray Well-Known Member

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    If the universe contains your brain, as well as the brains of other humans, and contains all other matter and energy in whatever form those may be, I would conclude that the universe is more complex than a single human brain, or all human brains. Easy peasy.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2017
  16. sdelsolray

    sdelsolray Well-Known Member

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    Your definition of "consciousness" must therefore include all mundane biochemical actions and reactions and (presumably) all inorganic chemical actions and reactions. Doesn't that just make the word "consciousness" meaninglessness?

    I agree with your thought on emergent properties. They are quite observable. As to the entropy question, you already know the answer - open entropic systems often contain localized entropy decreases. A good example is life on Earth with the direct or indirect energy input from the Sun.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2017
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  17. Maximatic

    Maximatic Well-Known Member

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    touche
     
  18. thoughtprocess

    thoughtprocess Well-Known Member

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    I agree with most of this but I want to have some fun. What proof and understanding do we actually have about life. In animals we can prove only To a certain extent their brains only work this way or that way. With plants we can only assume they are just reactionary beings to drink to eat to grow. But plants in this life have I think the fastest evolutionary functions the best ability to survive. My example being a tree
    On the roadway not just growing it's branches in the direction of the sun but arching them in away so to avoid trucks it seems like the tree learned this through either experience or awareness. I think it's a lot we don't know and only can speculate and witness. I think science can only hypothesize about this issue because our consciousness is yet to fully develop because we as humans decided to stop evolving.
     
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  19. sdelsolray

    sdelsolray Well-Known Member

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    How does a species decide to stop evolving?
     
  20. thoughtprocess

    thoughtprocess Well-Known Member

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    Because of consciousness a double
    Edged sword for humans. I believe in evolution and there isn't just physical evolution. With the different species and life the conditions to evolve vary to that particular species. The environment, predators, intervention etc. But humans
    Have the hardest road to evolve and to survive because our physical evolution just merely survives us we have no need to evolve. The need to evolve can only come from our mental evolution a strong desire thus a need to be better. Humans are to comfortable just being. so we choose to stay were we are. We actually are in danger of regressing because of our decisons.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2017
  21. Moonglow

    Moonglow Well-Known Member

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    “If the brain were so simple we could understand it, we would be so simple we couldn't.”~ Lyall Watson..
     
  22. tealwings

    tealwings Well-Known Member

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    I don't understand that.:laughing: j/k.
    So I guess its a good thing humans are so complicated.
     
  23. sdelsolray

    sdelsolray Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for telling me what you feel and believe. However, your post does not answer my question, which was "How does a species decide to stop evolving?"

    Let me be a bit more specific:
    1) How do humans stop genetic mutations?
    2) How do humans stop natural selection?
    3) How do humans stop genetic drift?
    4) How do humans stop sexual selection?
     
  24. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    Well then. You car is conscious!! Right?

    No. And a flower or other plant benefits from greater moisture that may exist on one side of the plant than on the other side due to water in that direction. So the root portion that gets more water grows more than the other side does. And so the root grows and expands....--in the direction of the water. That doesn't mean the plant is "conscious" in any way.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2017
  25. thoughtprocess

    thoughtprocess Well-Known Member

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    To describe it better I say this we all are born from ooze something for the sake of arguement I will call entities. Entities are the unseen beings that build the body along with the the seen microscopic bacteria and others we know exist in the body. Well those entities build a physical body thus the brain. So the unseen has a connection to the brain. Now awareness which is self I believe can force physical evolution. I say this because self I believe is not consciousness merely awareness a part of consciousness. So one can say you can use that awareness to evolve thru consciousness. For example the placebo effect. Thru awareness you trick your consciousness into healing because your self knows it to be true. Or a false pregnancy and there are so many other examples of body control thru desire. It's not fantasy merely desire but we have no true understanding of our consciousness so to control or even participate in our evolutionary process simply because we have no desire or need
     

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