How I Lost My Fear of Universal Health Care

Discussion in 'Health Care' started by Leo2, Jul 23, 2012.

  1. r3000

    r3000 Banned

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    I am not afraid of Universal Healthcare.

    I am afraid of what will happen when I refuse to buy it.
     
  2. tkolter

    tkolter Well-Known Member

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    The Higher Classes will always get access to better care private conceirge practices, international medical access and the like. But access to the poor to medical providers is vital and if you make treating poor patiants cheaper more people would likely take at least a percentage of Medicaid patiants.
     
  3. Turin

    Turin Well-Known Member

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    I do not believe you. you are lieing, and trying to purposley stir up fear and anger.
     
  4. r3000

    r3000 Banned

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    Sadly, it's true.
     
  5. ravill

    ravill New Member

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    As a physician first, individual second and part of a society third. I can live with a move in this general direction.

    The vast majority of my practice tailors around "not messing up". But why? I need to make sure I can justify my decisions in a court of law. NOT because it is the best/cost effective/sane or most common sense way of doing a particular procedure. If a mistake happens, or a bad outcome ensues, too bad.

    The ability to charge more for having to be IMMEDIATELY available on nights, weekends and holidays needs to be feasible as well. When you need my services emergently, I am needed in a matter of seconds.

    I know I will have to continue to pay more taxes to help each other. My salary will likely decrease a certain amount. I am willing to do that in a fair way. E.g., EVERYBODY pays the same taxes. PERIOD. Only those who are under the poverty limit get a break, and they STILL have to pay something.

    And we will have to understand that our healthcare system will be very drastically different in many ways. Our expenses and re-imbersements keep innovative companies doing the VAST majority of breakthroughs and new "minimally" invasive techniques here now. This will change if the fiscal impetus is not there.

    You want a Laporascopic procedure, tough cookies. In a few months when there is an opening in the OR schedule, you will get an open, big, painful scar and hope that the one pain medication that is approved for use, is one you are not allergic to.

    I have had the pleasure to volunteer my time in third world countries where healthcare is "state mandated" and the equipment I had to use was down right scary. How I didn't kill a child, I'll never know.

    This can have some very sad consequences. We need to have these thoughts in our minds as we move forward in this direction.
     
  6. diamond lil

    diamond lil Well-Known Member

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    I can't find any evidence to support that claim. Would you provide a link to the source of that information?

    Thanks.
     
  7. liberalminority

    liberalminority Well-Known Member

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    Europeans who advocate state mandated health care, please take note from one of our world class American physicians on why this a bad idea.

    "I have had the pleasure to volunteer my time in third world countries where healthcare is "state mandated" and the equipment I had to use was down right scary. How I didn't kill a child, I'll never know." ( Emphasis Mine)

    Thanks for the input Doctor, we needed an expert opinion here.
     
  8. tkolter

    tkolter Well-Known Member

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    The ACA uses an American version of models such as used in Germany and Switzerland using private providers and under government rules with a mandate to be covered so what is the big deal? Its in need of some work but doing nothing is not an option and again where is the Republican replacement plan in writing since they want to repeal and replace where is it? And will they cover the poor in any real way maybe the ACA does that less than ideal but its better than the nothing most poor have now.
     
  9. wyly

    wyly Well-Known Member

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    hmm no... the stats don't back that up, media attention of a few high profile wealthy Canadians go to the US for treatment does not translate to "many"...if I recall correctly the number of canadians seeking treatment in the US is .01%...even among wealthy canadians our UHC is the first choice....the opposite was true in fact tens of thousands of americans were coming to canada to fraudulently obtain medical care, the province of ontario improved it's identification system to stop the fraud...even where I live we are now required to provide photo identification with our UHC card which in years past wasn't necessary because every resident has coverage, why now? fraud by non residents...
     
  10. Leo2

    Leo2 Well-Known Member

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    In precisely which 'third world countries' have you volunteered, and how might your experience in some South American banana republic be relevant to Universal Health Care as practised by France, Germany, Italy, Norway, the UK, Australia or Canada?
     
  11. diamond lil

    diamond lil Well-Known Member

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    No, it won't. Doctors don't pay for research out of their own pockets. I'm surprised you didn't know that, being a doctor yourself.


    Do you not have access to keyhole surgery in the USA yet?

    I had a laparascopic procedure 25 years ago in the UK. On the NHS.
     
  12. r3000

    r3000 Banned

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    Good Morning Diamond, What information are you looking for?
     
  13. diamond lil

    diamond lil Well-Known Member

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    Good evening. I'd like to see where the following information came from:


    That statement wasn't made by you, but you agree that it's true, so it seems to be fairly common knowledge.

    I can't find anything anywhere suggesting there's any truth in it.
     
  14. r3000

    r3000 Banned

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    ok, well you won't find this word for word in any legislation. What you will find in other Universal Healthcare systems is exactly that. The reason being there isn't enough money to go around to give every 72 yearold that has cancer, cancer treatment. In fact there won't be enough to go around for the majority of us. I wouldn't set foot in a hospital (ER would be an exception), they'll only make you sicker. The only way to survive what's coming, is to not get sick. That's my plan anyway.

    As the old saying goes, if you don't have your health, you don't have anything.
     
  15. wyly

    wyly Well-Known Member

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    everyone gets sick, everyone dies...if you're fortunate you'll have heart attack and it'll be over quickly and inexpensively...
     
  16. r3000

    r3000 Banned

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    No, that's not true. Well everyone dies yes. But you need not get sick, for the last 10 years of your life. You can be healthy and happy until the day you die. 90, 100, 110. People all over the world are doing this. The trick? Don't let western medicine and western diet make you sick and keep you sick.

    Doctors kill more people than guns.






    edit: Do you believe your destiny is to have a heart attack before you die?
     
  17. wyly

    wyly Well-Known Member

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    everyone gets sick...healthy people don't die, if they die they obviously weren't too healthy
    everyone gets sick...healthy people don't die, if they die they obviously weren't too healthy

    silly


    everyone ultimately dies of heart failure....
     
  18. r3000

    r3000 Banned

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    110,000 people die in this country every year from Prescription drugs. Fact.



    "everyone gets sick...healthy people don't die, if they die they obviously weren't too healthyeveryone gets sick...healthy people don't die, if they die they obviously weren't too healthy silly"

    You aren't understanding what I'm saying......


    " everyone ultimately dies of heart failure...."

    Umm, no. That is flatly false.
     
  19. wyly

    wyly Well-Known Member

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    still silly

    ya I do, you're wrong


    go talk to a cardiologist(I have), everyone dies of heart failure....
     
  20. diamond lil

    diamond lil Well-Known Member

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    So, in fact, it isn't true. The lady was just scare mongering.

    Which UHC schemes do you mean?


    There is certainly enough money to ensure everyone gets the treatment they need.

    That's where decent preventative healthcare comes in.
     
  21. r3000

    r3000 Banned

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    All of them.






    No, there isn't.




    "Preventative healthcare" <-- this does not exist. At least within our healthcare system.
     
  22. r3000

    r3000 Banned

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    "To a hammer, everything looks like a nail."

    If you mean that when you're dead, your heart stops, ok then. But that's not heart failure. And that's certainly not heart disease.

    And what I'm talking about is general health, of which you will not get from Doctors and prescription drugs.
    fact: 110,000 people die of prescription medication.
    People are not sick from lack of prescription drugs. People are sick from lack of proper nutrition.
     
  23. diamond lil

    diamond lil Well-Known Member

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    You don't seem to be very well informed. If you#re going to oppose UHC, then make sure it's for the right reasons and not because you've listened to a load of right wing rubbish.
     
  24. r3000

    r3000 Banned

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    I'm not against anyone getting medical care, any medical care t hat they want. I am against being forced to purchase (and pay for others) something that I do not wish to have.
     
  25. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Truth to power. I can count on my hand the number of people I know that died from prescriptions. You will find more people in poor nations that are septegenarians mainly because of diet and movement. Western diet and lack of movement contributes more to bad health than anything else besides smoking.
     

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