How important is air quality in the lethality of Covid 19?

Discussion in 'Coronavirus Pandemic Discussions' started by phoenyx, Apr 9, 2020.

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  1. phoenyx

    phoenyx Well-Known Member

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    Some may have noticed a study that strongly suggests that air pollution greatly increases the lethality of Covid 19. Here's a news article from The Guardian on this:
    https://www.theguardian.com/environ...o-far-higher-covid-19-death-rates-study-finds

    I posted this article in the news section, hope it stays up this time (for some reason, the last news article I posted on it was removed, allegedly for breaking Rule 11- I asked what I had done wrong in that Rule, still no response). I haven't seen any serious discussion on this here or elsewhere, so I thought I'd ask the question and see if anyone is interested in finding answers to this.

    Personally, I think that reducing our pollution footprint is the only long term solution to pandemics of this kind. Put simply, I believe that our bodies are fighting so hard to fend off all the pollutants in our environment that we become easy prey for viruses and bacteria.
     
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  2. LogNDog

    LogNDog Well-Known Member

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    We should make pollen and dust illegal.
     
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  3. phoenyx

    phoenyx Well-Known Member

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    Very funny. However, on doing a little research, I found some interesting information.

    A lot of pollen has been found to be laden with pesticides. Take this study of Massachusetts, U.S. pollen:
    https://www.planetnatural.com/pesticide-pollen-honey/

    As to dust, it depends what's in the dust- if toxins from man made sources are part of it, such as air pollution, then certainly, it can be a problem:
    Toxic chemicals in household dust linked to cancer and infertility | The Guardian

    We really have to stop polluting our planet- it's not just the wildlife that it's killing.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2020
  4. LogNDog

    LogNDog Well-Known Member

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    Like I said, we should make dust and pollen illegal.
     
  5. FlamingLib

    FlamingLib Well-Known Member

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    It's a theory about why China's hospitalization rates were so sky-high: rampant smoking and bad air. We can't do anything about bad air in the near-term (except shut everything down), but people should definitely not be smoking right now.
     
  6. FlamingLib

    FlamingLib Well-Known Member

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    There are strict laws in the country about what can go into the air and how much of it.
     
  7. LogNDog

    LogNDog Well-Known Member

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    Is dust and pollen illegal? Do they not create breathing problems? Let's add smoke in there. We should make dust, pollen and wood smoke illegal.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2020
  8. FlamingLib

    FlamingLib Well-Known Member

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    We obviously can't ban dust and pollen, but there are certainly laws about what you can burn on your property.
     
  9. Pollycy

    Pollycy Well-Known Member

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    Smoking remains one of the more popular and widespread forms of air pollution, and it does seem to make the COVID19 virus worse in its effects: https://www.forbes.com/sites/victor...-19-during-coronavirus-outbreak/#7d5e43837638 .

    It's hard to believe that in 2020, an estimated 17.25% of the world's population still smokes tobacco. Stupidity is DEEPLY rooted.... :lonely:
     
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  10. phoenyx

    phoenyx Well-Known Member

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    They've been getting less strict for a while now under Trump. And now, well...
    Trump administration allows companies to break pollution laws during coronavirus pandemic | The Guardian

    As the Nation Worries About Coronavirus, the Trump Administration Is Rolling Back Environmental Rules [Some of the changes could make us more vulnerable to COVID-19.] | MotherJones

    And ofcourse:
    Trump removes independent watchdog for coronavirus funds, upending oversight panel | Politico

    An excerpt from that last one:
    **Fine’s removal is Trump’s latest incursion into the community of independent federal watchdogs — punctuated most dramatically by his late Friday ouster of the intelligence community’s inspector general, Michael Atkinson, whose handling of a whistleblower report ultimately led to Trump’s impeachment.**

    At least Fauci is still around, but it's clear that Trump is making sure he doesn't deviate too far from the script that he wants. It also looks like he may not last much longer...
    Why Trump's media allies are turning against Fauci amid the pandemic | The Guardian
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2020
  11. mitchscove

    mitchscove Well-Known Member Donor

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    The largest burn in my memory occurred in California, a burn I could smell in Ohio. It was caused by environmentalists going to war against clear cutting under powerlines to protect the delicate ecosystems. They will never learn because they weren't sued into the stone age. Instead, the power company settled in court and passed the cost to electric customers.
     
  12. mitchscove

    mitchscove Well-Known Member Donor

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    The cost of environmental laws caused companies to make necessary financial decisions to outsource to China. Linking our economy to China made us vulnerable to coronavirus ,,, and the outsourcing obliterated our ability to manufacture even low tech PPE and generic drugs in this country. We are now dependent on an enemy for alot of the stuff we buy.
     
  13. Lucifer

    Lucifer Well-Known Member

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    The real culprit is of course AGW, aka Anthropogenic global warming, but heaven forbid you will ever hear anyone in this administration address that. As temperatures rise, animal migration patterns change and come into greater contact/conflict with human populations.
     
  14. phoenyx

    phoenyx Well-Known Member

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    Global warming caused by humans is certainly bad, causing oceans to rise with all its attendant consequences. However, in terms of the coronavirus, it looks like air pollution is a much bigger problem. As mentioned previously, the one thing that is definitely good about people not moving around so much is that they're not using their cars as much, which means less pollution. However, we shouldn't have to engage in lockdowns to cut back on pollution. More use of public transportation (which in turn needs more -funding- for public transportation, people frequently had to wait for the next bus or train during rush hour before this Covid 19 hit) as well as cleaner cars and cleaner industries are what's needed here.

    Also, reducing pesticides and herbicides which get into the air and I imagine contribute to pollen and dust allergies would be good too. And ofcourse smoking less would be good as well.
     
  15. phoenyx

    phoenyx Well-Known Member

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    The problem is not environmental laws- far from it. The problem is that the U.S. and many other countries are willing to source a lot of their goods from countries that are devastating their environments. The idea of free trade sounds nice, but when the subtext is that we'll be buying a lot of our goods from countries who trash their environment and pay their employees malnutrition wages, well, you reap what you sow eventually.
     
  16. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    All aspects of health are of course linked together. Polluted air, polluted water, malnutrition, high energy frequencies and EM pollution, overmedication and even simple stress all erode our ability to fight off pathogens.
     
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  17. Pollycy

    Pollycy Well-Known Member

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    There was a time not too long ago when I would have disagreed with you somewhat, but now, considering the reality of what we've seen happen in the last few months, you are mostly right.

    Consider: after the fall of the Soviet Union, the world became 'safe' for Korporate Amerika (and Korporate Western World, too) to offshore everything imaginable to a population that eats bats, snakes, cats, dogs, monkeys, anteaters, and god-knows-what-else, and routinely craps in things called "squat-toilets" in very densely, highly-congested public areas that are often so polluted that air quality alerts occur almost daily.... But, HEY, it's been great for company earnings, and the stock market has feasted on it for THIRTY YEARS!

    [​IMG]. People who crap in this thing manufacture your prescription medicine. Wash hands? :lol:
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2020
  18. mitchscove

    mitchscove Well-Known Member Donor

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    Already one of the most expensive industries for new product development, the price tag for innovation will continue to rise with the dual pressures of the previously mentioned challenges – technology and regulation. There could be modest relief in the form of the ongoing moratorium on the 2.3 percent excise tax on the sale of medical devices – one of the industry’s biggest complaints about the Affordable Care Act (ACA). The moratorium was put in place in late 2015 and was expected to expire in 2020, pending any further legislative work.
    https://news.ewmfg.com/blog/3-challenges-for-medical-device-manufacturing-in-2017

    It's the cost of doing business here. A great example is the Obamacare medical device excise tax. Obama realized it was a mistake by 2015 and imposed a temporary moratorium, but companies who invested overseas aren't about to return for uncertainty. Trump killed the tax, but the damage was already done. China is not only a dirty place to manufacture, but they require presence to sell manufactured goods to their 1.5B people ,,, or however many are left.

    No only that, Americans put on welfare by outsourcing don't have the money or incentive to insulate or otherwise protect the environment.
     
  19. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The squat toilet itself actually promotes better posture while crapping. The 'squat' position is how our excretion system evolved to do it. This position can be acheived on 'normal' toilets as well, but some folks try to sit up straight while crapping, which can cause unecessary strain.

    In the grand scheme, it probably doesnt matter, and the increased sanitaryness of our toilets probably outweighs the occassional 'comode code' (heart attack from 'bearing down' too hard). I just thought it was worth mentioning that there is at least some benefit to a squat toilet.

    That one doesnt look like it flushes though... which means its an open airway to the sewer, which is bad for all sorts of reasons.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2020

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