How is it possible that Trump got elected?

Hmmm, guess I hit a nerve. The truth can be brutal sometimes.

 

Trump is going down. Stay tuned.

 

Hi Kode,

"Selling out the U.S." is a reference to the Uranium One deal. I'm sure you're familiar with it. But as an example,

http://www.factcheck.org/2017/10/facts-uranium-one/

I think that whole deal stinks to high heaven. The same source article says, "But there is no evidence that the donations or the speaking fee had any influence on the approvals granted by the NRC or the Committee on Foreign Investments."

I read that and thought to myself, "Of course there isn't. Duh!" And I thought of the 30,000 emails Hillary Clinton was absolutely determined to get erased from her hard drive.

As to the tax cuts, I have been supportive of reducing taxes on corporations and businesses. Philosophically, I see a business or a corporation in its essence as simply a vehicle through which people work cooperatively to make a living. I am generally opposed to taxing that vehicle - that group endeavor. I believe we can and should achieve tax justice whenever any actual person receives money from the endeavor, that is, through personal income taxes. And, I do support the concept of progressive income taxes. And furthermore, for the past 20 years or so, companies have left the U.S. in droves to produce overseas, and so I favor doing anything we can to compete to get companies to stay here, return here, or for foreign firms to locate here. So I would say that the intent of lowering corporate taxes is actually pro-worker. How much it helps remains to be seen, but I support the effort. To those who say, "All it does it give more money to the rich", I say that whenever that corporate wealth is converted to personal income, tax it.

Will the tax legislation put more money in the pockets of the middle class? I think it will, but I can't be sure until the House and Senate agree on a final bill, and we can see the specifics. I did test the House bill against my own 2016 income and taxes I paid. I discovered that I would no longer be able to itemize my deductions because of the loss of certain deductions, namely our state income taxes and the Personal Exemptions. So I would have to take the new, higher Standard Deduction of $24,000 for a married couple. The result was interesting. I would actually have more taxable income after taking the Standard Deduction than I did when I itemized. You would think that would mean I would get a tax increase - more taxable income = tax increase. But what I discovered is that the House bill changed the tax brackets from current law in a way that favors middle class taxpayers (0% on the first $24,000, 12% from $24,000 to $90,000 for a married couple). The bottom line was that the House bill would actually lower my taxes by around $2500, even though I had more taxable income.

So really, we'll have to wait and see what shakes out in the final bill.

Seth

 

Vivid dream.

Insults? Yeah that's enduring.

 

GDP revised to 3.3%, DJ at $23,950, Consumer confidence at its highest since 2,000 - and it's getting better every day.

You can cry and bytch and twist the facts all that you want - people vote their wallets and everyone but the dumbest ideologues are recognizing that Trump is the cause of this economic boom.

I am amazed at the way you focus on Trumps tweets to the exclusion of everything else while the general public could hardly care about anything but whether they can pay the mortgage or rent and still get Christmas presents for their kids.

 

Thanks for the answers, Seth. I also checked my taxes under the new law last week with what was known then and I also fond it increased my taxable income and the bottom line was unclear given the uncertainties but it looked like we would pay just a bit more. But I agree, we will have to wait for the final version to get a reliable answer. However, long term there are multiple reports that in 10 years the tax breaks for the wealthy are going to suddenly go way up while the taxes one those making under $75K will go way up. Also it is reported that the repeal of the mandate will cause a big increase in health insurance premiums.

But I don't see any increase in jobs coming out of the bill, or increases in income for workers. There are reasons for the economy being as it is and wages being where they are and it's not because of corporate taxes. Dumping money into the hands of corporations will just put more money into their hands. Historically they hand it out in executive bonuses and raises, and especially now with capacity utilization being at 73% and the downward pressure on wages.

 

I thought you might like this. How do you like paying a tax on the same money twice? I don't.

 

How is it possible that Trump got elected?

Because Hillery was possibly the crappiest candidate for President in the History of the U.S.

 

Missed it again, it wasn't his lies it was what they wanted and believe in and Trump was the only candidate in either party willing to at least give lip service to what the voters between the mountains want.
A lot of us including myself never thought Trump had more than a thirty percent chance of changing the culture in the DC swamp. The on again off again alliance of mutually assured destruction between the last vistigies of the Rockefeller Republicans, the Neocons, and the Neofascist left aka the Clintonistas, is simply to powerful when combined with the current bureaucratic morass that dominates everything in DC.

One other thing to bear in mind though, if you think Trump is chaos, you're kidding yourself. In fact he's the last best chance to keep a lid on things. We in the US are becoming a peculiar combination of the Old Austro-Hungarian Empire and David Webber's fictional Solarian League. If we do not find a way to change radically our current paradigm of governance the USA will disintegrate into as many as a dozen competing fragments.

we have at most another fifteen years to make that change. If we haven't made it by then the process of Balkanization will have become to advanced to stop.

 

Yes, I saw that. I turned your fantasy into real world.

You are not a fan of reality, are you. Or the truth, for that matter.

 

It's official.

 

Sure I do.

 

Oh, I seriously doubt that. You should read my latest article. Trump has a real problem and he is scared to death.The article puts everything in perspective. Well, almost everything, anyway.

http://politicalforum.com/index.php...g-trumps-world-has-come-crashing-down.520099/

 

LOL, sure.

 

You were unable to answer the question. Just another Trumpian throwing labels around he can't back. No intelligent life here.

 

You are not quite right. Trump was elected because a sufficient number of americans wanted change. And trump promised change, and said it in a most blunt manner. The way he talked, while not typical of his class, was something the average guy could relate to, and understand. I think this is done intentionally by trump, and I think he learned this appeal by being around construction sites, and observing and listening to construction workers, the american worker.

Now these people trump appealed to are those same kinda people that used to make a living wage, and now are struggling like hell, and going into debt. And he offered them hope. He said he was gonna stop factories from leaving, and would bring back those that left. And they believed him, or at least hoped that he would not let them down.

And that is why he won. And why his support is still there. These people hope. Their futures look like sh*t. Many of these people are not smart like you, are not college material, and america always had a place for them, with living wages. And america has always had these kind of people. Never be an engineer, a doctor, a lawyer or politician, but they have strong backs and able hands. And we no longer have a good job for them. And they elected trump. Because he gave them hope. Now, understand??

I think my view on this is much closer to reality than your view. I understand where these people are coming from. I live around them here in the South. And they are of all colors. I am in contact with them, whereas, I think you are sitting behind some desk, or relatively isolated from the real world of middle america, and therefore are not really connected up. And you almost seem to have a distaste for these people. None of your ancestors ever like them? You cannot relate to them now? Just my opinion.

 

He says while using what he thinks is derogatory, Trumpians.

 

That is nonsense. Beyond signing some E.O.'s that can be cancelled with a signature Trump has done nothing. What is spurring this growth in the stock market is the fact that Republicans control both houses of Congress. Wall Street loves Republicans because they cause deregulation. Then, of course, there is the Republican sponsored tax reform bill lowering the corporate tax from 35% to 20% and the 25% rate for pass-through businesses. The Street loves to hear that it is a tax cut for the rich.

That is what the Republican legislature is doing for Wall Street and they are loving it. Trump has nothing to do with it.

Ironically, because Republican administrations favor deregulation, the two most severe economic crises occurred during Republican rule, the Great Depression and the Great Recession. Recovery took place during Democratic administrations, case in point, the Obama administration and the Great Recession which began in '08.

Recovery took place during the entire eight-year tenure of the Obama administration. Trump has been in office for ten months. Giving him credit for the economy is absurd.

Respect is earned, not given.

 

I think you are right, but it is only part of the story. Because I have gained a reputation on PF for being anti-Trump, I have been assailed by a wide variety of Trump supporters who obviously voted for Trump. My para dealing with who voted for Trump is a reflection of the responses I have gotten from Trump supporters.

That para also is a result of research. Pew and FiveThirtyEight are both very good at providing the make-up of voters. I have used their work.

You are quite right that much of Trump's support came from the American worker and miner, but it is also true that many of those workers were unemployed or underemployed. Trump promised them jobs.

But that is only a part of his support. He maligned Mexicans and promised a wall to be paid by Mexico. He promised to keep Muslims out of the U.S. He promised to "drain the swamp." He promised to "Make America Great Again." This kind of speech attracted the far right, white supremacists, white nationalists, even members of the KKK, like David Duke. He appointed Steve Bannon as one of his senior advisors. Bannon is an avowed white nationalist. His "drain the swamp" rhetoric attracted anarchists. I have heard their destructive posts on PF.

All this resulted in my para describing Trump's voters.

Trump was elected by disgruntled blue collar workers, miners, and small farmers who, rather accept the responsibility for their own lives, blamed the government for all their ills. Anarchists, under the guise of "draining the swamp," who wanted chaos in Washington by removing political leadership, also supported Trump. Trump got more support from non-college educated voters than any other candidate in American history.

Of course, those folks represent a minority in the U.S., and, because 90 million voters stayed home that day, Trump was elected by a minority of Americans, 25% of the electorate. He even lost the popular vote to a very unpopular candidate, Hillary Clinton, by nearly three million votes. That's pretty bad.

Historians will forever be studying how in the hell he won. My article is just the tip of the iceberg to that question.

 

Trump was elected because he was only one who represented Americans (at least verbally).
H. Clinton represented special rights people - women, blacks and pederasts.

 

Ye reap what ye sow. Ask for derogatory replies, you will get derogatory replies. You are one of the worst. I have never heard anything intelligent from you, just personal insults.

 

Ah, ad hom. You know you have lost the argument when you resort to that.

 

No objection to the breakdown of his supporters. I just lump them together.

I just sympathize with the people who supported him in their own economic self interests. But I am a FDR kinda guy. These same people would have voted for FDR, IMO. That is how I see this. Yes, trump won on stopping illegal immigration which has hurt working people, especially in construction, meat packing, jobs like that. Of course trump could have stopped illegal immigration and had many to self deport if he had went after the businessmen who hire these illegals. Fine em big, including a couple years in federal prison if they get caught. No plea bargains.

His supporters are economic nationalists, and yes, there are some white nationalists in there, but not that many. No more percentage than gay people in a given population. Of course the white nationalists are used against him. And the globalists would use the economic nationalists against him. But since I am an FDR kinda dem, like sanders, I am an economic nationalist as opposed to an economic globalist. For I am not an elite. And do not share their self interests. And yet many modern faux liberals do.

 

Yeah, he made a lot promises to people. It is keeping those promises where he runs into problems. He runs into a myriad of problems when it comes to the performance of his duties. Lately, he has insulted our Muslim allies in fight against ISIS, angered our most reliable ally, Great Britain, turned a vital conference at the White House into a photo op and political stunt, and the White House has multiple stories on whether Tillerson will be fired.

And that is just in the last three days.

You can really pick 'em.

 

I'd already read it and responded I thought in short that it was bogus. Understand he would be doing exactly the same thing regardless of whether or not it had anything to do with Trump.