How policy of FDR and Truman administrations toward communism was mismanaged

Discussion in 'History & Past Politicians' started by Anonymous.Professor, Jan 17, 2020.

  1. Anonymous.Professor

    Anonymous.Professor Newly Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2020
    Messages:
    94
    Likes Received:
    23
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Gender:
    Male
    The governaments of F. Roosevelt and also Harry Truman to a smaller dergee were heavily penetrated by Soviet spies working for Stalin and international communism and also with sympathizers of this totalitarian regime. They were not just giving informations to Soviets but were also influencing USA foreign policy in a way suitable for Stalin.

    This part of USA history is still not well known and we still do not know all the details. Only under senator Joe MacCarthy the real purge of USA administration really started. That was only under republican president D. Eisenhower. Polititians as senator McCarran, JFK,, William Bullitt, William Knowland etc. also helped a lot that some demage was repaired. The influence of Soviet spies and sympathizers of communism likely helped a lot that China felt under communism of Mao. Mao and Stalin together with their puppet Kim soon decided to start a war in Korea where international communism was stopped by joint UN efforts. Only after this USA policy became more aware of the problem.

    Already during WW2 Churchill was surprised many times by American foreign policy which was in many cases pro-soviet. For example Churchill in his memoires of WW2 is writting how much USA administration was against his intervention in Greece in December 1944 when the British saved this country from communism.

    Churchill Second world war 1954, pages 957-967.

    Today we know from Soviet archives that indeed Soviet spies were placed very high in the administration of Roosevelt.

    Recent scholarship has concluded that Venona project codename Zamestitel (English translation, "Deputy") and agent 19 were both very close to president Roosevelt. Source no. 19 was very highly placed in as much as he was asked to join a private conversation with President Roosevelt and Prime Minister Churchill. Source no. 19 reported on a private conversation he had with Roosevelt and Churchill during the just ended 'Trident' conference of the two Allied powers in Washington. Source no. 19 reported on Churchill's views on why a 1943 Anglo-American invasion of continental Europe was inadvisable. The message also reported that Zamestitel supported a second-front and that it appeared that Roosevelt had been keeping Zamestitel in the dark about "important military decisions." In the 1960s, Akhmerov KGB officer professed at a secret meeting of Soviet intelligence officers that Harry Hopkins was "the most important of all Soviet wartime agents in the United States."

    The man who was for a very long time responsible for China relations Lauchlin Currie was also a Soviet agent. It is indeed very strange how USA governament would not see the real danger of Mao and communists of China if they were not mislead somehow. They started with their purges already in 1930/31 ( 186.000 killed for political reasons in Jiangxi ) and later were responsible for more deaths than Hitler in Europe.

    Black book of communism pages 559-682.

    After the war, Currie was one of those blamed for losing China to the control of Communists. Currie was not prosecuted and in 1949 he was appointed to head the first of the World Bank's comprehensive country surveys in Colombia.
    However, when Currie, as a U.S. citizen, tried to renew his passport in 1954, he was refused, on the grounds that he was now residing abroad and married to a Colombian. He appears in the Venona cables under the cover name 'PAGE', and in Soviet intelligence archives as 'VIM'.

    About the role of Owen Lattimore and other communists in the loss of China

    Also playing a part in the formation of U.S. policy on China were members of the Institute for Pacific Relations, authors and reviewers of books on China, and others in the media, who contributed to the favorable image of the Chinese Communists. During the Senate hearings on the IPR, 46 persons connected with the IPR were identified as Communist Party members.80 Their publications were clearly pro-communist. Yet the IPR and its publications were the main source of information on the Far East.

    About the role of Soviet agent Harry Dexter White in the loss of China

    Harry Dexter White in the Treasury Department played a key role in sabotaging U.S. economic aid to the Nationalists or KMT, as even his friendly biographer admits.The U.S. government had made a commitment to Chiang in writing to supply $200 million in gold to curb inflation in Nationalist China. White's policy prevented the shipment until it was too late to be effective in stemming the inflation, a contributing factor to loss of American confidence in Chiang and thus to Chiang's defeat. White also supported the propaganda line favorable to the communists.

    How Stalin tricked Roosevelt in the case of Czechoslovakia

    President Edvard Beneš who was indeed also very naive about Stalin and incompetent to deal with communism even more than Roosevelt ( he claimed he helped to persuade Roosvelt that Stalin is not so bad ). Stalin allowed the theatre of democracy in Czechoslovakia after WW2 on the wishes of FDR/Truman etc, but took care that general Ludvik Svoboda another Soviet agent got the control over the army of Czechoslovakia and opened the door wide open for further communist and Soviet infiltration of the army. Because of this an intervention of Red army was even not needed in 1948 when communists made their revolution in Czechoslovakia. A lesson to all other countries of the free world!

    https://www.hrad.cz/en/president-of-the ... ik-svoboda

    https://www.columbiaspectator.com/2005/04/07/defense-mccarthy/

    https://www.ewtn.com/catholicism/library/who-lost-china-10801

    https://www.conservapedia.com/Harry_Dexter_White

    https://www.conservapedia.com/Harry_Hopkins

    Lauchlin Currie - Wikipedia

    https://www.conservapedia.com/Lauchlin_Currie

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venona_project

    https://www.conservapedia.com/Venona_files

    https://www.amazon.com/Blacklisted-History-Senator-McCarthy-Americas/dp/1400081068

     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2020
    jay runner likes this.
  2. Moonglow

    Moonglow Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2013
    Messages:
    15,730
    Likes Received:
    5,280
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Chiang Kai-shek was responsible for the communist in China winning control of the people and the country, one guy in America ain't gonna do ****.
     
  3. Moonglow

    Moonglow Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2013
    Messages:
    15,730
    Likes Received:
    5,280
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Evidently the Chinese communist were just what the US capitalist wanted to produce their goods..
     
    Farnsworth likes this.
  4. Anonymous.Professor

    Anonymous.Professor Newly Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2020
    Messages:
    94
    Likes Received:
    23
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Gender:
    Male
    Chiang Kai-Shek should not be blamed for the loss of China to totalitarian communism. He was not deluded and mislead about the real danger of communism. Roosevelt administration wanted non-communist China as very important ally after war one of so called ''big four'', but this strategy was sabotaged by communist spies in USA administration.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Policemen

    Military aspects were in fact the most important that China was lost to totalitarian communism. And mismanaged USA policy played a great role here. This article is pointing both of this out very good:

    Chiang Kai Shek was quite successful from 1927 when he broke with communist and after warlords were defeated. He partly unified China. This success ended because of the Japanese aggression in 1937 ( and even before in 1931 Japan occupied Manchuria where China had 90% of its industry - Manchuria was between 1916-1928 controled by pro-Japanese warlord ).

    Whatever the government's weaknesses, by 1937 it survived a series of acute crises, consolidated its position in most of the country after putting down regional separatists, developed the nucleus of a strong army under central control, was able to speak internationally for China, built up the revenues almost from scratch to about C$1 billion (about US$300 million), organized a budgetary and administrative system, developed a market for international borrowing, settled most debts in arrears, reformed the currency system and coinage on a nationwide basis, organized and developed a central bank, rehabilitated and improved transportation and communication, began agricultural reforms, and had under way a growing and promising program of development in which both domestic and foreign capital and technical aid participated.

    The effects of Japanese aggression:

    From 1937 on, the deleterious effect of Japanese aggression was not simply a matter of tying up troops which could have been used to defeat the Communists, but the loss of civilian life and property, the bombing of every sizable city and town, the large numbers of refugees, the prevalence of malnutrition, the loss of property and labor to the enemy, and the prevention of any economic recovery because 95 per cent of Chinese industry was in Japanese hands. The length of the war drained Nationalist China economically and eventually made it more dependent on U.S. aid.

    KMT was carrying the biggest burden of the war with Japan and was much weakened by this. Communist got big support from Stalin in 1945 after Soviet occupation of industrial Manchuria after Japan was defeated.

    Besides the immediate benefits gained by the Chinese Communists because of the Soviet occupation of Manchuria, Stalin's government provided additional assistance to Mao. The Soviets rebuilt Lin Piao's Fourth Field Army and transferred into it 100,000 North Korean troops with supplies. Soviet military advisers assisted the Chinese Communist army, and the Soviets supplied 1,276 artillery pieces and 369 tanks, reversing the early Nationalist superiority in these areas.

    When the USSR entered the war against Japan the People's Liberation Army of China was in an extremely difficult position.... After Northeast China was liberated, the Soviet Commander handed over to the People's Liberation Army the weapons and equipment of the former Kwantung Army, and later, Soviet weapons too. The materiel captured by two Soviet fronts alone included more than 3,700 guns and mortars, 600 tanks, 861 aircraft, and nearly 680 military depots. The USSR helped to form, equip and train an 800,000 strong army which played the decisive role in routing the Kuomintang.

    https://www.ewtn.com/catholicism/library/who-lost-china-10801
     
    jay runner likes this.
  5. ThirdTerm

    ThirdTerm Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2012
    Messages:
    4,183
    Likes Received:
    407
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Lauchlin Currie recommended that the United States equip, man, and maintain the 500-plane Chinese Air Force in 1941, which was approved by FDR. The First American Volunteer Group (AVG) of the Chinese Air Force or the Flying Tigers was created under President Franklin Roosevelt's authority before Pearl Harbor and commanded by Claire Lee Chennault. Currie further secured lend-lease funds to create a potent Chinese Air Force. Lauchlin Currie was likely to be a Soviet asset who successfully infiltrated the Roosevelt administration.



     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2020
  6. Anonymous.Professor

    Anonymous.Professor Newly Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2020
    Messages:
    94
    Likes Received:
    23
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Gender:
    Male
    Ok ... one should understand mrs. Third Term also that Soviet agents and collaborators were changing their activity according with Soviet communist interests. For example Owen Lattimore changed his policy several times and MacCaran committee concluded he was: from 30's conscious instrument of Soviet conspiracy. It was Currie who recommended Lattimore to FDR as special advisor to KMT and Chiang.
     
  7. ThirdTerm

    ThirdTerm Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2012
    Messages:
    4,183
    Likes Received:
    407
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Freedom Betrayed: Herbert Hoover's Secret History of the Second World War and Its Aftermath puts the blame squarely on the Truman administration, which snubbed Chiang Kai-Shek's plea to keep China free. The State Department at the time was instrumental in creating Communist China as the majority of American officials were sympathetic to Mao under Soviet influence.



     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2020
    jay runner likes this.
  8. Anonymous.Professor

    Anonymous.Professor Newly Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2020
    Messages:
    94
    Likes Received:
    23
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Gender:
    Male
    After damage done to KMT by Japanese the only way to save them was by sending US troops in China after the defeat of Germany. Truman decided that he will keep the policy of FDR and allow Soviet troops to go in China.
     
  9. Quasar44

    Quasar44 Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2020
    Messages:
    2,939
    Likes Received:
    913
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I have deep respect for Truman but he did get us into the Korean War

    FDR was a bum
     
  10. Anonymous.Professor

    Anonymous.Professor Newly Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2020
    Messages:
    94
    Likes Received:
    23
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Gender:
    Male
    It might be that eastern Europe could not be saved from communism and had to suffer for decades, but i believe China could be saved, as was south Korea later. Truman can be respected because of policy of containment of communism in Europe but in the case of China he followed FDR.
     
  11. Scott

    Scott Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2008
    Messages:
    3,183
    Likes Received:
    223
    Trophy Points:
    63
  12. Anonymous.Professor

    Anonymous.Professor Newly Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2020
    Messages:
    94
    Likes Received:
    23
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Gender:
    Male
    Communist espionage in USA was still widespread even in 80s:



    ( some examples of industrial espionage )

    KGB agent Aldrich Ames had very important positions in CIA and even knew details about all CIA operations against USSR.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aldrich_Ames

    Former KGB agent Yuri Bezmenov explaining how KGB was using western leftists us useful idiots to destabilize democratic society. He gives examples of Nicaragua, Afghanistan etc. where leftists were first used for the start of revolution, but were killed or imprisoned in later stages. The same KGB strategy was prepared for India where Bezmenov was working.

     
    jay runner likes this.
  13. Farnsworth

    Farnsworth Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2010
    Messages:
    684
    Likes Received:
    179
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Another thread full of the latest in right wing rubbish. Chiang Kai Shek was given billions in gold to fight Mao; he simply stole it and fled to Formosa. As for Churchill's alleged' surprise' at FDR's support of Stalin, that's an even more stupid claim; it was Churchill's jumping up and down and screaming for sending aid to the Soviets just in time to save Moscow from falling that Spring that kept the Soviets in the war. It was also British Merlin aircraft engines, machine tools, aviation fuel boosters, and British engineers in Soviet factories that made all the difference in allowing the Soviets to actually begin launching the offensive at Kursk Pocket.

    Soviet spying and antics had little to no effect on policies in the end; the whole point of this innuendo campaign these days is merely as a prelude to sniveling about programs Like Social Security and military spending. It was the usual Republican isolationists who kept killing any spending on supporting other countries and definitely killing any attempts to send troops and military aid to anybody until after the major wars had already started and been running for years.

    Try another fake narrative and see if that flies; the one in the OP is just silly.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2020
  14. Farnsworth

    Farnsworth Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2010
    Messages:
    684
    Likes Received:
    179
    Trophy Points:
    43
    All those Soviet campaigns ended up in disaster for the Soviets; they went bankrupt over Viet Nam in 1973, and were on western life support from then on to their final collapse. We led them to a soft landing, preferable to a violent collapse in a country with so many nukes for the taking by anyone who wanted to steal them or use them.
     
  15. Anonymous.Professor

    Anonymous.Professor Newly Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2020
    Messages:
    94
    Likes Received:
    23
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Gender:
    Male
    I recommend this documentary about China and its extremely bloody revolution. Note that Theodore H. White had problems with McCarthy because of his pro-communist reporting from China during WW2 in 50s but confirms here that thinking about past he sees now how right was Chiang Kai Shek about the real danger of communism.

     
  16. Farnsworth

    Farnsworth Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2010
    Messages:
    684
    Likes Received:
    179
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Chiang Kal Shek was never going to risk his life and wealth fighting Mao, so whatever some hack writer said decades later in hindsight is pretty much moot, and doesn't mean a thing re FDR or anybody else. The U.S. had many other problems elsewhere much more pressing than trying to ship millions of troops to Asia, just because some right wing hacks might come along decades later and pretend we should, just never mind the right wingers were nearly all isolationists busy trying to sabotage FDR's Presidency and rooting for Hitler, and didn't become all 'concerned' about anything going on overseas until after WW II ended and they tried to take credit for winning it and then found out they could get really really rich building stuff for the military when the WW II restrictions on profits and rationing went away, then they got all excited and started being all 'anti-Commie N Stuff'. Of course nowadays the right wing is no different than their fellow left wing psychos, and loves themselves some Red China, since the Reds came along and offered them essentially slave labor and no icky pollution controls and overnight became Wall Street's new Best Friends Forever. But they need some new propaganda gimmicks, so their professional media hacks came up with the Roosevelt bashing rubbish as a deflection.
     
  17. Anonymous.Professor

    Anonymous.Professor Newly Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2020
    Messages:
    94
    Likes Received:
    23
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Gender:
    Male
    Because there is some political resistance to historical facts by mr. Farnsworth it must be reaffirmed that FDR administration recognized USSR in 1933. Soviets had to sign a declaration that they will not conspire against USA constitution, but declaration was silent about the aggressive process of collectivization which killed at that time milions of people. Comintern used this recognition for filling USA administration with literary loads of communist spies so that they were able not just to do widespread espionage but also manipulated USA foreign policy itself.

    In this lecture of mrs. Diana West is another example how before mentioned Lauchlin Currie blocked contacts between anti-Nazi German opposition with deluded and manipulated Roosewelt. ( minut 32 of the video)

     
  18. Farnsworth

    Farnsworth Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2010
    Messages:
    684
    Likes Received:
    179
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Yes. Anybody who has the kind of labor racketeering business run by Red China is going to be hugely popular with the right wingers. That's why when they start these stupid propaganda campaigns some hack pulls out their ass they should be laughed at and mocked. They hope nobody notices they loves them some of that Red Chinese government 'assistance' with their 'investments' and dividends. Almost nobody is fooled by their crazy crap, though, which is why the Right Wing is very lucky to beat out left wing loons by a couple or three percentage points every election. Sooner or later the moderates, paleo-liberals, and conservatives wont' bother voting any more and leave the country to the lunatics.
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2020
  19. Anonymous.Professor

    Anonymous.Professor Newly Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2020
    Messages:
    94
    Likes Received:
    23
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Gender:
    Male
    I am adding here this short video which is confirming what i already said, that only after communist aggression on South Korea and after Eisenhower was elected USA president policy toward communism became more firm. In video you can see how Red China was trying to occupy Taiwan and already seized some smaller islands, but was finally stopped by USA.

     
  20. Farnsworth

    Farnsworth Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2010
    Messages:
    684
    Likes Received:
    179
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Just rubbish and innuendo, and completely ignores as usual the right wingers' fanatical infatuation with isolationism right up to the Japanese ataccks and German declarations of war against the U.S.

    What they really hate about FDR was his Social Security programs and work programs for the unemployed and youths of America that put food on peoples' tables in real time while the wealthy GOP types cried and whined for the Feds to gun down all those uppity proles while the rich hid behind walls on their estates and hired private armies to protect themselves. You want to blame somebody for FDR, then blame Hoover and his ordering the Army to bayonet veterans in an elections year while the right wingers cheered. They also were afraid that FDR"s policies would deprive them of their breakfast beer and make wife beating illegal, too.
     
  21. Anonymous.Professor

    Anonymous.Professor Newly Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2020
    Messages:
    94
    Likes Received:
    23
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Gender:
    Male

Share This Page