How Should We Respond to Foreign Attempts at Sowing Discord and Violence

Voting Thread Open!

It appears... that Russian Government Agents are starting to grow frustrated at the fact that Americans and other westerners have yet to begin killing each-other en mass and are stepping up their efforts to sow and encourage division, discord, and violence.

The purpose of this thread is to ask,
What can we do to safeguard ourselves from the negative effects of foreign subversion,
and what if anything should we be doing in retaliation?

Normally, I like to steer clear of any topics or issues related to foreign political influence as it tends to be far too messy of a subject for my liking, but if the reporting on what Russia has been up to in the past, and what they're planning for the coming U.S. midterms and beyond is true, then it is highly concerning, I can no longer stay silent on the matter.

"Russia strategically seeks to undermine U.S. political cohesion by promoting extremist views within opposing political or social groups, and hoping chaos—and violence -- ensues." 'Kill them all' -- Russian-linked Facebook accounts called for violence​

It seems, that Russia, or at least the Russian government, has it out for us and are doing all they can to try and trick us into fighting and killing each-other by exploiting and amplifying previously held divisions between us in order to create chaos. Note that they do this by attempting to simultaneously influence both sides of any particular divide; whether it be along racial lines, based on religious differences, or by political views, they are aiming not only to drive a solid wedge between varying groups, but to make them hate one another so much so that the sides lash out at eachother in violence.

Recall one reported incident last year in which fake Russian-created accounts were caught (after the fact) acting under the guise of American citizens in an effort to set up three different political rallies of opposing views to take place all in the same place and at the same time. It isn't hard to guess what they were hoping to happen in doing this. But that instance was only particularly noteworthy due to it being a clear and indisputable real-world consequence of Russian cyber actions within the United States. Meanwhile, the broader scope of their past activities goes much deeper, with entire groups being setup by Russian agents (on the right and the left), allegedly for the sole purpose of sowing violent discord among U.S. citizens.

"Posts from three now-removed Facebook groups created by the Russian Internet Research Agency suggest Russia sought not only to meddle in U.S. politics but to encourage ideologically opposed groups to act out violently against one another. 'Kill them all' -- Russian-linked Facebook accounts called for violence

"An account called "Being Patriotic" said Black Lives Matter activists who don't respect the flag should "be immediately shot,"... Blacktivist, another Russia-linked group, posted in November 2016: "Black people have to do something. An eye for an eye. The law enforcement officers keep harassing and killing us without consequences." A third group, Secured Borders, said the only way to deal with "dangerous illegal aliens" is to "kill them all." "If you get deported that's your only warning. You come back you get shot and rolled into a ditch... BANG, problem solved,"... "The state department needs to be burned to the ground and the rubble reduced to ashes," read another post.

The Russians don't want groups like Black Lives Matter [and] the Alt-Right to sit there and have discussions and debates about the future of America. They want violent clashes," Russian-linked Facebook accounts encouraged violence​

And maybe the idea that the Russian government would like nothing more than for chaos to ensue and weaken us isn't really news to anyone... but reporting suggests that they are becoming more aggressive in their efforts, specifically where it involves direct instigation of physical violence. They have a whole assortment of tricks up their sleeves for pitting us against one another... and with whispers that China and other countries may be starting to get in on the mix too, I think we may very well have ourselves a recipe for a carefully orchestrated societal catastrophe.

But the most concerning danger may be in that they will not simply stop at posting inciteful remarks online, pretending to be left-wing or right-wing Americans pushing at the extremes to instill hatred,... but that they will go further,... again doing things like organizing concurrent rallies and protests in a naked attempt to put riled up Americans literally at each-others throats in just the right place and at just the right time to kick off conflict... and yet they have shown the capability and willingness to go still even further than that!

"Fight clubs, neo-Nazi soccer hooligans, and motorcycle gangs serve as conduits for the Kremlin’s influence operations in Western countries."

"It would be a mistake, however, to think that the partnerships between the Kremlin and these groups are always marriages of convenience. Many are genuine partnerships based on a shared aversion to liberal democracy and a desire to undermine it." Russia Is Co-opting Angry Young Men​

Consider for example some of their recently uncovered past activities in countries other than the U.S. and you quickly get an idea of where things can be headed if we aren't diligent about how we deal with these covert actors... if we aren't careful about how we go about combating this sort of thing...

"On the streets of the French city Marseille, Russian soccer hooligans sporting tattoos with the initials of Russia’s military intelligence service, GRU, brutally attacked English soccer fans in June 2016, sending dozens of bloodied fans to the hospital. Alexander Shprygin, an ultranationalist agitator and the head of the All-Russian Union of Supporters (a soccer fan club that he claims was established at the behest of the Russian Federal Security Service, or FSB), was arrested during the melee and deported from France."
​

That sounds bad right? A bunch of soccer fans getting beat up for no good reason in France... well believe it or not, Russia had even more insidious plans for Montenegro. A full on foreign-directed coup d'etat of their elected leadership through similarly subversive means.

"The GRU’s plan, according to Montenegro’s chief special prosecutor investigating the coup, involved using cyberattacks to hack into popular messaging apps... spreading false rumors that the vote count had been rigged by the ruling party. Using this disinformation, prosecutors allege, the GRU sought to mobilize protesters into the streets. Next, a group of hired mercenaries, dressed up in stolen Montenegrin police uniforms, was to storm into the Parliament building and fire on protesters to sow mayhem and disorder. In the ensuing chaos, the prime minister was to be assassinated in order to render the country rudderless." Russia Is Co-opting Angry Young Men​

Chilling right? But fortunately that second plot at least was foiled by authorities, though if any of this is starting to sound familiar then hopefully you can see why we here in the U.S. ought to be more worried about stuff like this. Suppose for a moment that disparate groups of protestors in our country are able to settle down and momentarily appeal to their better senses and agree to express their views in relative peace and without any physical confrontation. And now imagine for a moment that Russian agents then act to interfere in all that. First, by once again simply setting things up such that protests of opposing views occur within close proximity.

From that point it doesn't really take much... even if both sides of a debate have committed to peaceful dissent, consider that just one Russian agent acting to blend in on either side moves to chunk a rock or bottle or something at "the opposition". And now consider that a second Russian agent intermingled with the other side is then prompted to take this as an 'excuse' to fire of few handgun rounds or let fists fly in "retaliation"... What exactly do you think will happen next in that situation? I can tell you that whatever it is, it probably isn't going to be pretty. And the sad part is, its not as if we can just tell each-other to stop committing acts of violence... as every single American can be on board with that, and yet just a couple Russian agents whom have no intention of keeping things peaceful would be all it takes for violence to break out anyway.

Particularly concerning is that their tactics do not necessarily all involve doing the instigation themselves though... the evidence suggests that their preferred method of doing things is to incite individuals within a target country to do their dirty work for them, whether that be through paying them off, blackmail, or playing off the views of those who may themselves already be prone to violence or anti-democratic tendencies. In the Montenegro case cited above the Russian GRU agency reportedly contracted the the help of radical fringe groups within the country to carry out the planned attack in order to mask its own involvement in the scheme.

"Russia’s trolls and intelligence services prey on social outcasts in order to radicalize them and recruit them to wage war on their countries’ liberal institutions. To do this, the Kremlin reinforces their belief that liberal democracy is rotten and cultivates their restless anger and propensity toward violence. In addition to stoking anger and resentment, the Kremlin also uses covert financing to bankroll their destructive agenda. These efforts occur both in person, via martial-arts studios and motorcycle clubs, and in the virtual world of social media, where they are largely hidden from law enforcement and the general public." Russia Is Co-opting Angry Young Men​

(continued in next post)

 

...And perhaps even more concerning, is that those very same tactics may already be in effect here in the states, even if we haven't yet gone to all out civil war. Americans, yes, American citizens seem to be taking up the Russian cause of sowing division and discord through numerous fake accounts on both the left and the right just as the spotlight begins to shine brighter on operations occurring directly out of Russia. Facebook alone for instance has already identified 559 pages and 251 mostly fake accounts being run and operated by actual Americans spreading and amplifying the very same false, misleading, divisive, and violent messaging originating from Russia.

Americans are now copying Russia and making hundreds of fake Facebook accounts to influence politics (FB)

"The company said it would remove the pages and accounts. Among them were Right Wing News, which had more than 3.1 million followers, and left-wing pages that included the Resistance and Reverb Press, which had 240,000 and 816,000 followers." Facebook Tackles Rising Threat: Americans Aping Russian Schemes to Deceive​

Honestly though, even if a full on civil war never does ensue, the very idea that people in our country could be being beaten up and or killed due to Russia's malicious antics ought to be cause enough on its own to warrant us wanting to take some action in response to all this. I for one do not want to inadvertently become a part of the cycle of hatred ultimately leading up to violence, and I certainly don't want to be unwittingly tricked into being a part of it, nor do I wish to stand idly by doing and saying nothing while the rest of the country spirals into violent conflict. I would hope that my fellow citizens and others who are likewise targeted by such subversion feel the same.

If so,... the question then becomes what then should we do about it? What is the solution here? How should we react? What should the response be? I ask this, specifically with regard to the influence efforts themselves. What can we do to safeguard ourselves from the negative effects of foreign subversion, and what if anything should we be doing in retaliation?

Given the scope and importance of the issue, I decided to split things up here into two different threads. Again, the focus of this thread is specifically on how we should respond/react to/what we should do about the foreign influence itself. In contrast this thread's sister thread, How Can We Prevent Societal Rifts From Expanding into Violence, will focus more specifically on what we should do to prevent, respond to, and or mitigate the violence which may occur as a result of these Russian activities or even just as a result of our own previously held divisions in general. I hope that members will participate and post ideas in both threads.

I'm also curious to know, have any of you noticed an uptick in violent rhetoric? Have you come in contact with anyone encouraging you to commit violence or attempting to get you to join them in convincing others to do so? Have you seen an increase in individuals expressing hate of one side or the other or attempting to cast them as pure evil? Do certain people claim to be holding more extreme views than usual? Have you perhaps been influenced by any such rhetoric, or do you have any close friends you feel may be susceptible? No need to name names here, though of course if you see anyone on this site inciting violence, do be sure to report them.

And to those out there who for some ungodly reason actually genuinely feel that division, discord, violence, and chaos is what this country needs, I ask you... are the consequences of such outcomes really so worth it to you? Particularly if you are American, or of some other Western nation, is it worth the lives of your fellow citizens? The lives of your friends and family, those whom you care for? Is what ever end goal you have in mind worth even your own life? Know that almost no one will be safe if Russian agitators get their way and our nations devolve down into total violent and confrontational anarchy.

Further reading:

Russian Threat ‘Is Real,’ Trump Officials Say, Vowing to Protect U.S. Elections
Military Leaders Are Starting To Freak Out Over Russia’s Information Warfare Dominance
Man Sentenced In Russian Troll Farm Case​

-Meta

 

Ideas so far:

-Censor conservatives and or liberals from social media
-Have the AG use the Espionage Act of 1917 with more vigor
-Discontinue screwing around in foreign nations ourselves
-Get rid of our CIA
-Deal with the situation as a Unified Collective
-Officially make it espionage for a foreign entity to pay for anything that influences US elections
-Charge any US citizens caught helping or facilitating foreign influence efforts as spies
-Revoke any favored tax status for 5 years of any organization which employs agitators
-Foreign actors caught disrupting our society should be denied access to our markets and financial institutions
-Do a better job educating people about our country and how it is designed to work
-Come up with a digital solution that can identify attempts by foreign elements to commit cyber crimes
-Have Government and Private Social Media Work Together to Expose Foreign Attempts at Sowing Discord and Violence
-Ban all Foreign Access to American Social Media During Election Time [1][2]
-Develop a healthy level of skepticism towards information found on social media
-Try to verify information with reputable corroborating sources before believing or sharing information
-Always try to find common ground with those willing to discuss issues civilly, even if it seems unlikely
-Don't lose focus of issues which are important to you, particularly ones you think might be more unifying
-Call out extreme views for their flaws regardless of what side they occur on
-Never give up trying to civilly reason with your opposition, even if it seems hopeless
-Avoid painting either side with a broad brush or blaming a group for the actions of individuals and call out those who do
-Judge ideas based on their individual pros and cons, not based on who they come from or who supports them
-Switch to using Ranked systems for various elections, moderating both the electorate and the elected politicians
-Increase sanctions on Russia or any other foreign entity every time they get caught inciting violence or sowing discord in other nations
-Reduce sanctions if Russia fesses up to what its been up to and can prove its committed to discontinuing its active measures
-Crack down on anyone who consistently gets caught inciting violence online with civil and or criminal penalties
-Start thinking more long term instead of short term or procrastinating when it comes to societal issues like the debt
-Fire Cruise Missiles into the Kremlin​

 

I assume no such thing. Just the opposite in fact.
As I specifically called out in this thread's sister thread, How Can We Prevent Societal Rifts From Expanding into Violence
we Americans do in fact have our own strongly entrenched political divisions even in spite of Russian actions, and no, of course Russia is not behind all of that. That however does not at all mean that Russian influence efforts should simply be ignored, especially not when their goal is not simply to just divide us, but to push us into actively killing each-other.

-Meta

 

Also, please do note, as the OP illustrates, that their so called "active measures" toolkit goes far beyond just "a few Facebook ads".

-Meta

 

As the OP and articles in it suggest, their primary goal appears to be nothing short of all-out chaos
within the U.S. and other western nations / a general weakening of our country overall.

If you read the OP, you should notice that it isn't at all about who Russia was or wasn't helping to become president.
It is specifically about what Russia has been and is currently doing to sew discord, division, and violence amongst our citizens.
Again, I repeat, they are engaged in these activities, right now! If all they wanted was for Hillary to lose, why would they still be engaging in "active measures" a full two years latter? The only reason I can think of, is that their intentions go far beyond any one particular president.

And yes, it should be noted that their efforts are not limited to one party or another. As the OP mentions, they have no qualms about impersonating both American democrats or liberals and American republicans and conservatives as well. I think it also bears repeating that their efforts are not simply limited towards the U.S. but have and are affecting other countries as well.

-Meta

 

At least... that appears to be the case so far.
But if the Russians do to us what they tried to do in Montenegro,
it may soon no longer be the case. In my view, now is the time to be proactive before (more) people start dying.

Whether the best way to do that is to somehow target the virtual activities,
or to target instead the in-person activities, I do not really know.
Perhaps, what we should do is to target both at the same time...

-Meta

 

How specifically should Facebook, Google, and Twitter change what they are doing?
Also, if you're referring to the very recent bannings of fake accounts and Russia operated pages,
doesn't the violence, associated extreme division, and Russian influence efforts all predate that?
So again, what should Facebook, Google, Twitter etc. be doing here, and how would doing it help the situation to improve?

So you're saying that part of the solution here, is for politicians to tone down their rhetoric.
That seems pretty reasonable. Can we be a bit more specific though?

Don't tell me you think things like division, discord, and violence are good things.
Trust me, in the long run, they are not good for anyone, and we should do what we can
to reduce discord, lesson (if not completely eliminate) extreme division, and prevent violence from occurring.

-Meta