How to address the US murder rate...?

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by TOG 6, Nov 3, 2017.

  1. T_K_Richards

    T_K_Richards Well-Known Member

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    You really need to learn about how statistics work.

    I haven’t seen anything regarding mental health issues, but it is possible.

    We know that a greater propensity of black Americans live in poverty.

    We know that there are more drug problems, familial problems, etc among poor communities.

    There is no evidence that genetics has anything to do with it. If you have some feel free to share it.
     
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  2. Lesh

    Lesh Banned

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    What country do you live in?

    Have you ever read the Constitution?

    Do you know what "cruel and unusual" means?
     
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  3. Lesh

    Lesh Banned

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    That's the definition of trolling Duh..
     
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  4. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Of course I do

    Do YOU realise the conditions on those convict ships?
     
  5. Voltamp

    Voltamp Banned

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    Well you're the one who brought up mental health, but since you asked, black people do have higher rates of schizophrenia.

    But about the poverty angle, there's actually many more white people in poverty than black people. By a lot. Close to twice as much even.

    If poverty was the biggest factor white people's murder numbers would dwarf those of black people, they do not.

    If poverty was the biggest factor poor white towns would be just as bad as inner cities. They are not.

    It's not poverty. It's culture.
     
  6. Lesh

    Lesh Banned

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    I don't think statistics can show that.

    Correct for economics and I think you'll see an entirely different picture. There are many more white people and many more of THEM are not poor.

    Check the numbers after you remove people making above $30K from all races and I'll bet you'll see something very different
     
  7. Voltamp

    Voltamp Banned

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    I just looked, 17+ million white people live in poverty compared to 9 million black people

    IF poverty was the biggest factor, or even a significant factor, then the total number of white murderers in any given year would be far far greater than the total number of black murderers

    But it isn't. In fact it's roughly the same even though there's far far more white people than black people

    That's because black people are more violent

    No other way to put it
     
  8. Lesh

    Lesh Banned

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    Here is an interesting report

    So why are black offenders – and young black men in particular – over-represented in America’s crime statistics?

    Judging from online comments, there is a wide spectrum of views on this, from unapologetic racism to militant refusal to blame the problem on anything but historic white racism.

    Some criminologists think we could be simply confusing race for poverty or inequality: black people tend to offend more because they tend to be more disadvantaged, living in poorer urban areas with less access to public services, and so on.

    If you control for deprivation, people of different races ought to be similarly predisposed to commit crime. Or that’s the theory, at least.

    There is a lot of research in this area, but a lot of it is contradictory.

    This study of violent crime in deprived neighbourhoods in Cleveland, Ohio, found that reductions in poverty led to reductions in the crime rate in exactly the same way in predominantly black and white areas, suggesting poverty, not race, is the biggest factor.

    Other studies get different results.

    All sociologists have suffered from the same basic problem: finding urban white communities that are as disadvantaged as the poorest black neighbourhoods, so that you can get a fair comparison.

    Some thinkers play down the importance of poverty in favour of the “violent subculture theory”.

    This is the idea that some black communities, for some reason, have developed cultural values that are more tolerant of crime and violence.

    Some commentators on the unrest in Ferguson – mostly right-wing, though not all white – seem to favour this idea, but naturally it remains highly controversial.

    The verdict
    There is evidence in the official police-recorded figures that black Americans are more likely to commit certain types of crime than people of other races.

    While it would be naïve to suggest that there is no racism in the US criminal justice system, victim reports don’t support the idea that this is because of mass discrimination.

    Higher poverty rates among various urban black communities might explain the difference in crime rates, although the evidence is mixed.

    There are few simple answers and links between crime and race are likely to remain the subject of bitter argument.
     
  9. Lesh

    Lesh Banned

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    But fear not white people. Interracial crime occurs at a pretty low rate. You're far more likely to be killed by a white person than by a black person

    THAT is fact
     
  10. Voltamp

    Voltamp Banned

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    There is one simple answer that one can come to after analyzing black populations around the world, and not just in north America.

    It's a simple answer, which is usually the correct answer, but its an uncomfortable answer
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2017
  11. T_K_Richards

    T_K_Richards Well-Known Member

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    Poverty is a factor. What is the homicide and murder rate for people in the middle and upper class?

    There are multiple factors.

    What about black people who immigrate to the US? Why aren't they violent? Why are black people from the West Indes among the most successful groups in the US?

    You're obsessed with race and it's blinding you to obvious facts that disprove your claim.
     
  12. Voltamp

    Voltamp Banned

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    Poverty is a factor when comparing whites to whites or blacks to blacks. Not when comparing whites to blacks

    That's why the poverty excuse has never made sense

    And west indians do better for the same reason Hindus and the Chinese do, because we tend to take the best of them

    But them refugees, different story
     
  13. Voltamp

    Voltamp Banned

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    Simply put, the poverty excuse implies that all races are the same

    But how could they be? It's ridiculous to believe they are
     
  14. FAW

    FAW Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    This is essentially a list of cultural factors, and you are presenting them as if they somehow refute the notion put forth in the OP. The OP is not claiming that high violent crime rates in the black community are a function of genetics, yet you are responding as if that is his assertion and the central debate being had. In that sense, your response is a strawman because you are arguing against a point that had not been raised by the OP.

    Instead of using the information that you presented as an insight to the topic being discussed, you opted to use that same information in an attempt to condescendingly shut down the conversation. In truth, your response WAS an actual answer to his question, but you phrased it as if it somehow invalidates the genuine question being asked. Your answer, if presented in a straightforward manner would therefore be....'The black community in America has such a high murder rate because their predominate culture has bred high levels of poverty, a high illegitimacy rate, low levels of educational attainment, a bad influence of high crime rates from relatives, and high rates of mental illness'

    You can legitimately argue why their culture is what it is ( especially poverty), but you cannot legitimately argue the reality of the output of that culture in regards to violent crime rates. FWIW, I'm not so sure that a higher rate of mental illness in the black community is actually true, and if it were to be true, that would tend to point to a genetic rather than cultural influence.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2017
  15. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps in your bizare version of reality.
    In the real world, asking a question is one of the legitimate ways to start a conversation.
     
  16. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    That being the case, your response is utterly invalid.
     
  17. Lesh

    Lesh Banned

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    If you "ask a question" in order to do nothing but act as as shyt stirrer...and have nothing to add yourself...you are trolling.
     
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  18. Lesh

    Lesh Banned

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    It's ridiculous and racist to believe that they are in any real way different
     
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  19. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    And your statistics to back this are...
     
  20. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    If this makes you feel better about yourself...
     
  21. Voltamp

    Voltamp Banned

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    the different races are by definition different.

    a doctor can tell you if a femur came from a black person, white person or asian person. is he racist?
     
  22. Fenton Lum

    Fenton Lum Banned

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    Foment more societal division amongst the masses, that should help.
     
  23. Voltamp

    Voltamp Banned

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    easily verifiable
     
  24. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    Your failure to meaningfully address the question aside...
    If I did that I'd be a Democrat.
     

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