How To Finally Resolve the Abortion Debate

And when there is another body involved when should we be allowed to kill it? Because we don't like it? Because it may intrude on me for a few months? Because it may cause me some discomfort during those months or pain for a few hours if I do not?

 

Spoken like one who will never be pregnant nor understands what pregnancy and childbirth entails.

 

Most will require parenting until they are at least 25. Some take a bit longer to mature and be self sufficient.

 

So you would also say that those claiming to care about precious born children, only seem to care when they are not being abused and requires no effort on their part. Once the child starts being abused and 25-30 years of parenting is required, they are nowhere to be found. That means that their claim to care is nothing more than projecting a self-image? I won't be surprised if I don't hear back from you!

 

No reasonable person could extract that from my posts. Here we are at the beginning of the circle again. So, you care about the unborn, right?

 

Do you think that I'm saying that you said that? I'm saying that you SHOULD say it if you have the one standard and not a double standard!

I do, just as you have friends and family who care about the BORN, but do not adopt. Would you say that their care is worth nothing and they're just projecting a self-image?

 

There is a lot of real estate between not caring and adopting. Between those 2 extremes are all the levels of caring.

 

But you can't say this in relation to pro-lifers? Haven't you just been caught having a double standard?

 

No.

 

Why can't you say this in relation to pro-lifers?

 

I am not painting "pro-lifers" with a broad stroke. Many support anti-abortion laws, but few are willing to put in the effort. They expect others to do what they are unwilling to do themselves. Some go above and beyond.

 

So if one can never experience something they they are prohibited from having an opinion on something. That's your position correct?

I ask YOU a couple of questions, I made no statement. Try responding this time.

And when there is another body involved when should we be allowed to kill it? Because we don't like it? Because it may intrude on me for a few months? Because it may cause me some discomfort during those months or pain for a few hours if I do not?

 

Again, you have a GROSS double standard! You wouldn't say that people support making it illegal for parents to murder their kids, but few are willing to put in the effort.

 

When people say that the government pays for abortions, we know they are referring to elective abortion’s. Now you’re just being disingenuous

 

So you think a pregnancy ends at birth? You are aware that it is in just a few months, it’s 18 years! You make the point why men should have no say in this. You just don’t get it

 

I just got arrested for destroying a forest because I threw away some acorns

 

It’s so beautiful how he exemplifies “life begins at conception and ends at birth”

 

FoxHastings said: ↑
Spoken like one who will never be pregnant nor understands what pregnancy and childbirth entails.

No, my position is what I said, if one reduces pregnancy and childbirth to "" intrude on me for a few months? Because it may cause me some discomfort during those months or pain for a few hours if I do not?"""


then that person is ""like one who will never be pregnant nor understands what pregnancy and childbirth entails.""


I never prohibited you from having an opinion no matter how erroneous and denigrating to every mother it is.

It's nine months of pregnancy with all it's inherent risks with a lifetime of after effects. It is financial/educational/ job losses and setbacks.




This is what you make light of:
Normal, frequent or expectable temporary side effects of pregnancy:

• exhaustion (weariness common from first weeks)
• altered appetite and senses of taste and smell
• nausea and vomiting (50% of women, first trimester)
• heartburn and indigestion
• constipation
• weight gain
• dizziness and light-headedness
• bloating, swelling, fluid retention
• hemmorhoids
• abdominal cramps
• yeast infections
• congested, bloody nose
• acne and mild skin disorders
• skin discoloration (chloasma, face and abdomen)
• mild to severe backache and strain
• increased headaches
• difficulty sleeping, and discomfort while sleeping
• increased urination and incontinence
• bleeding gums
• pica
• breast pain and discharge
• swelling of joints, leg cramps, joint paininfection including from serious and potentially fatal disease
  (pregnant women are immune suppressed compared with non-pregnant women, and are more susceptible to fungal and certain other diseases)
• extreme pain on delivery
• hormonal mood changes, including normal post-partum depression
• continued post-partum exhaustion and recovery period (exacerbated if a c-section -- major surgery -- is required, sometimes taking up to a full year to fully recover)

Normal, expectable, or frequent PERMANENT side effects of pregnancy:

• stretch marks (worse in younger women)
• loose skin
• permanent weight gain or redistribution
• abdominal and vaginal muscle weakness
• pelvic floor disorder (occurring in as many as 35% of middle-aged former child-bearers and 50% of elderly former child-bearers, associated with urinary and rectal incontinence, discomfort and reduced quality of life -- aka prolapsed utuerus, the malady sometimes badly fixed by the transvaginal mesh)
• changes to breasts
• increased foot size
• varicose veins
• scarring from episiotomy or c-section
• other permanent aesthetic changes to the body (all of these are downplayed by women, because the culture values youth and beauty)
• increased proclivity for hemmorhoids
• loss of dental and bone calcium (cavities and osteoporosis)
• higher lifetime risk of developing Altzheimer's
• newer research indicates microchimeric cells, other bi-directional exchanges of DNA, chromosomes, and other bodily material between fetus and mother (including with "unrelated" gestational surrogates)

Occasional complications and side effects:

• complications of episiotomy
• spousal/partner abuse
• hyperemesis gravidarum
• temporary and permanent injury to back
• severe scarring requiring later surgery
  (especially after additional pregnancies)
• dropped (prolapsed) uterus (especially after additional pregnancies, and other pelvic floor weaknesses -- 11% of women, including cystocele, rectocele, and enterocele)
• pre-eclampsia (edema and hypertension, the most common complication of pregnancy, associated with eclampsia, and affecting 7 - 10% of pregnancies)
• eclampsia (convulsions, coma during pregnancy or labor, high risk of death)
• gestational diabetes
• placenta previa
• anemia (which can be life-threatening)
• thrombocytopenic purpura
• severe cramping
• embolism (blood clots)
• medical disability requiring full bed rest (frequently ordered during part of many pregnancies varying from days to months for health of either mother or baby)
• diastasis recti, also torn abdominal muscles
• mitral valve stenosis (most common cardiac complication)
• serious infection and disease (e.g. increased risk of tuberculosis)
• hormonal imbalance
• ectopic pregnancy (risk of death)
• broken bones (ribcage, "tail bone")
• hemorrhage and
• numerous other complications of delivery
• refractory gastroesophageal reflux disease
• aggravation of pre-pregnancy diseases and conditions (e.g. epilepsy is present in .5% of pregnant women, and the pregnancy alters drug metabolism and treatment prospects all the while it increases the number and frequency of seizures)
• severe post-partum depression and psychosis
• research now indicates a possible link between ovarian cancer and female fertility treatments, including "egg harvesting" from infertile women and donors
• research also now indicates correlations between lower breast cancer survival rates and proximity in time to onset of cancer of last pregnancy
• research also indicates a correlation between having six or more pregnancies and a risk of coronary and cardiovascular disease

Less common (but serious) complications:

• peripartum cardiomyopathy
• cardiopulmonary arrest
• magnesium toxicity
• severe hypoxemia/acidosis
• massive embolism
• increased intracranial pressure, brainstem infarction
• molar pregnancy, gestational trophoblastic disease
  (like a pregnancy-induced cancer)
• malignant arrhythmia
• circulatory collapse
• placental abruption
• obstetric fistula

More permanent side effects:

• future infertility
• permanent disability
• death.

 

I think that's assuming alot.

No I'm not.

 

Ahhhhh yes the pregnancy ends at the birth.

 

You tried to invalidate it because I can not become pregnant. Do you also try to invalidate the opinion of women who cannot become pregnant?

 

No, I invalidated your opinion because it was so wrong:"" intrude on me for a few months? Because it may cause me some discomfort during those months or pain for a few hours if I do not?"""

I would invalidate the opinion of anyone who has so little knowledge of what pregnancy entails and says so..


But I'm sure you'll go on and on about this point so you can ignore the facts that prove you wrong....Post # 2370...

 

You are incorrect. I support liberty and the right to choose. The double standard applies to those insisting she carry full term and that others provide care for the child.

What a tangled web you weave.

 

What about those insisting that she look after her kid 'full term' for the entire kid's childhood and that others provide care for the child?

 

What about them?