How to run an impeachment investigation the republican way.

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by btthegreat, Oct 16, 2019.

  1. stone6

    stone6 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes...the maximum penalty for conviction upon impeachment is removal from office...ergo, it is NOT a criminal prosecution, but a political one. And, it is a process that allows 2/3rds of the Senate to define the phrase "high crimes and misdemeanors."
     
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  2. Nemesis

    Nemesis Well-Known Member

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    *LOL*

    Read the Mueller Report.
     
  3. btthegreat

    btthegreat Well-Known Member

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    You can use the word treason to describe the behavior and the charge. it is actually sitting in the constitution to be used as a justification for impeachment. But because impeachment is not a criminal proceeding itself, due process is not prescribed by the Constitution. You can impeach for aggravated murder as well, but because the result is not going to involve depriving the accused of life liberty or property, its consequences do not rise to a level that require due process.

    There is absolutely no constraint on time that I know of , in either in the House rules or the constitution on impeachment hearings. I far as I can see, no one has ever seen a point in prolonging them unduly.
     
  4. Sleep Monster

    Sleep Monster Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That bit about "lying about him for 3 years" is just one of Trump's many false narratives. It works well with his base, who either did not read the Mueller Report or did not understand what they were reading. AG Barr claiming Trump was exonerated is a false narrative. Mueller has repeated stated that his investigation did not exonerate Trump.

    As for the time line on this impeachment process, even McConnell has stated that he expects to bring this to trial in the Senate by Thanksgiving.

    https://www.businessinsider.com/mit...eachment-trial-could-start-next-month-2019-10

    Your boy Trump is toast. Even if the Senate does not vote to remove him from office, Trump himself, through his unhinged behavior, has made himself inelectable, and as soon as he leaves the Oval Office, there will be handcuffs and an orange jumpsuit waiting for him. He knows that even if you don't. It's why he's doing everything he can to delay, delay, delay, and to discredit his opposition. If he were to get a second term, the statute of limitations will have run out on the several obstruction charges waiting for him.
     
  5. Robert E Allen

    Robert E Allen Banned

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    Nope i think pursuing Clinton for his affairs was a stupid move on Ken Stars part.
    Just as i think trying to implicate Trump in the Russia probe was a bad idea. And this impeachment inquiry is a bad idea.
    Regardless of the outcome it will be bad for America, much worse than not getting rid of Trump til 2024.

    This is the end of the usefullness of both the executive and legislative branches.
    From now on presidents are going to be under constant investigation and congress is going to be clogged performing them and the work the American people want done will be ignored.
     
  6. Robert E Allen

    Robert E Allen Banned

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    I meant in regards to being involved with Russian election meddling. And obstruction? Mueller didn't prove it..
    Plus Mueller was a political hack working for the DNC, just like the FBI.
     
  7. btthegreat

    btthegreat Well-Known Member

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    I call it a quasi legal/ quasi political process. Its got just enough trappings of a legal process in the Senate to oblige an good head fake or two on the way to the basket. Actually, I think the Senate rules do a pretty good job of duplicating due process, but nothing in any court in the land interferes with a swift jury nullification, let alone when the jury is preselected without Voir Dire. The politics definitely dominates.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2019
  8. Robert E Allen

    Robert E Allen Banned

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    The point in prolonging it is to negatively impact Trump in the election..
    The dems do not care if Trump did anything wrong. This is a political ploy.
     
  9. Nemesis

    Nemesis Well-Known Member

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    That's not remotely what the report shows.

    And your other claim? Utter hogwash, supported by zero evidence, and irrational on top of it.
     
  10. Robert E Allen

    Robert E Allen Banned

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    Bullshit.. there was no collusion. Get over it already.
     
  11. stone6

    stone6 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Perhaps, you should wait for the bill of impeachment itself, prior to deciding whether it is a "political ploy" or not.
     
  12. btthegreat

    btthegreat Well-Known Member

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    I think they care because he has a history of trying to use his clout to get foreign govts to impact his elections, and insofar as such conduct is illegal and it may be effective in undermining the election again, they have no other choice. If this conduct did not involve the 2020 election, they might have stayed with Pelosi's general view. Hard to argue to wait for an election to resolve all this , when his behavior is about illegally impacting that same election.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2019
  13. Robert E Allen

    Robert E Allen Banned

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    I will do that as soon as you all stop assuming Trump is guilty.
     
  14. Robert E Allen

    Robert E Allen Banned

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    Prove he has a history of trying to influence elections using foreign governments.
     
  15. stone6

    stone6 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Agree. Many Americans consider "politics" to be a dirty word. While the corruption of the political process would certainly fall into that category, it is still the exception and not the rule. The removal of the President from office is a serious political process, which constitutionally allows "the people" (via their elected representatives) to reverse the last electoral process that put him into office, based on new information, which has surfaced since that election, and is presented in a bill of impeachment.
     
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  16. pol meister

    pol meister Well-Known Member

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    Not at all. The failure to vote denies due process to the accused. It's what makes the inquiry constitutionally invalid.

    The link below lays it out quite clearly:

    https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/PAC-Letter-10.08.2019.pdf



     
  17. stone6

    stone6 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Like everyone else, he's innocent until proven guilty, so "guilt" would be determined as a result of a criminal prosecution AFTER he leaves office.
     
  18. btthegreat

    btthegreat Well-Known Member

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    Of course it should be a political process to remove a political figure. It should be a legal process if you want to remove it from politics. The idea is that to annul the most important result of an election, you had better be accountable to the same people who voted in it.
     
  19. Robert E Allen

    Robert E Allen Banned

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    Hmm. None of you are acting like he is innocent. Not one bit, yiu guys have already made up your mind he us guilty based on nothing more than your dislike of him. The house of representatives is doing the same thing.
    Just like they did with the Russia probe and just like they did with the extraordinarily honorable judge Kavanaugh.

    The current Democrats in congress are vindictive power hungry scumbags as proven by their conduct over the last 3 years
     
  20. stone6

    stone6 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    True...the House and Senate votes are public records and the representatives will be held accountable to their constituents in the elections following the results of the House and Senate votes.
     
  21. btthegreat

    btthegreat Well-Known Member

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    Last edited: Oct 17, 2019
  22. stone6

    stone6 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yeah...but while "public opinion" may certainly influence the House and Senate votes on impeachment and trial on impeachment, any subsequent criminal prosecution would take place in a "court of law" wherein only the "poll of the jurors" counts.
     
  23. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Banned

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    You are implying that those three conditions are contained in the Constitution. That is called deceit.

    The Constitution says nothing of the kind and leaves the impeachment process up to the House unconditionally.
     
  24. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Banned

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    Another witness in the impeachment inquiry is openly defying the White House and testifying after being told not to.

    The Times reports, "Gordon D. Sondland, the United States ambassador to the European Union, told House impeachment investigators on Thursday that President Trump delegated American foreign policy on Ukraine to his personal lawyer, Rudolph W. Giuliani, a directive that he said he disagreed with but nonetheless followed.

    "Mr. Sondland, a Trump campaign donor who has emerged as a central figure in the Ukraine scandal, testified under subpoena that he did not understand until later that Mr. Giuliani’s goal may have been an effort “to involve Ukrainians, directly or indirectly, in the president’s 2020 re-election campaign.'"

    “We were also disappointed by the president’s direction that we involve Mr. Giuliani,” Sondland told congressional investigators.

    Sondland testified that Giuliani drew a direct link between scheduling a White House visit for Ukraine’s newly elected president and demands that Ukraine prioritize investigations targeting Trump’s political rivals, including former Vice President Joe Biden.

    The circle is closing on Trump. Maybe even the Trump Republicans in the Senate will start to take notice.

    But I doubt it. Their allegiance is not to Americans and the Constitution. Their allegiance is to Trump.
     
  25. Robert E Allen

    Robert E Allen Banned

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    The concept of public opinion influencing what Congress does with Trump is just absurd. They don't care.

    If Trump broke laws. That will be up to a criminal prosecutor later on.

    It's quite possible Trump did wrong, i don't know. But Congress doesn't care. The house will investigate as long as they can in hopes if impacting the election and the Senate will only convict him if they have to.
    Both of these are very bad.

    My guess is that the house will investigate this up to the election.
     

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