How would you solve the Transgender conundrum?

Discussion in 'Opinion POLLS' started by Reasonablerob, Jan 13, 2022.

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How do we resolve the Transgender conundrum?

  1. Those born men are men, those born woman are women and surgery makes no difference

    26 vote(s)
    68.4%
  2. People should be allowed to define their gender as they will and it should be legally respected

    5 vote(s)
    13.2%
  3. We must separate bathrooms/changing rooms/sporting events for transgender people

    2 vote(s)
    5.3%
  4. Other?

    5 vote(s)
    13.2%
  1. Reasonablerob

    Reasonablerob Well-Known Member

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    For me, we have to have the third option, it is otherwise simply impossible to square the circle
     
  2. Junkieturtle

    Junkieturtle Well-Known Member Donor

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    What I would vote for was not listed.

    In just about all situations, gender doesn't matter.

    I think the only two instances are sports and to a lesser extent, bathrooms.

    When it comes to bathrooms, my feeling is, if you've had reassignment surgery, use the bathroom of your new gender. If you're just identifying as a different gender but have not actually changed yourself, you use the bathroom of the gender you were born with.

    For sports, your birth gender should be the sole determination. I could be persuaded to accept trans folks competing as their new gender after something like 5 years of hormone therapy and gender reassignment surgery.

    Essentially, if you have not had gender reassignment surgery, you abide by the rules with your birth gender until you do.

    I do not and will never like the idea that you can just decide what your gender is on a whim and then expect the rest of society and it's rules to bend to you. That said, there are only a limited amount of situations where your gender should actually matter in the first place.
     
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  3. Doofenshmirtz

    Doofenshmirtz Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I believe ones privates should be a private matter and should not be forced on the public!
     
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  4. lemmiwinx

    lemmiwinx Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If you're a girly guy or a burly girl makes no difference to me. Guys, just don't pretend like you're a girl so you can compete in women's sports and win. That's just creepy and not fair.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2022
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  5. Pollycy

    Pollycy Well-Known Member

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    Hell, we blow billions upon billions of dollars for everything else, so, let's build separate facilities for the TG people and let all of them use those -- but make them stay OUT of facilities marked "Men" (male), or, "Women" (female). Put all the "TG" eggs in ONE basket and let them deal with their own privacy issues as one group....
     
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  6. CKW

    CKW Well-Known Member

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    Men are men. Women are women. AND IF you pretend to be the gender that you are not, fine, but our laws shouldn't accommodate you. ALL PROBLEMS SOLVED.

    And I am offended to be called "Cisgender". I am woman! I'm not a cis anything .
     
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  7. Moonglow

    Moonglow Well-Known Member

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    This nation and the people that inhabit it should have the liberty to live life with the ability to live as they desire as long as it does not infringe on the rights of another citizen.
     
  8. Chrizton

    Chrizton Well-Known Member

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    That has been deemed insufficient and discriminatory by courts when schools have tried to do it, It is the anything separate is unequal logic.
     
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  9. Pollycy

    Pollycy Well-Known Member

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    Then what are we to do? Should we just close access to all the public bathrooms, and have the entire population pissing and crapping on sidewalks and in the streets, like the vagrants and bums do...?

    Truth? Men are men, and, women are women! We should erect separate facilities for a third category described as "Other", but if that is found to be illegal, then all of us men need to carry 'pee-flasks' around with us, and I don't know what the poor women would do.... What a hell of a stupid, unnecessary pile of dysfunctional crap THIS is.... :frustrated:
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2022
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  10. 19Crib

    19Crib Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Oh sure, businesses should spend millions expanding buildings to add a third bathroom when the population of trans is miniscule. It is their responsibility to adapt to us, not the other way around.
    If they can pass as a woman, then no one will notice. If they can’t then they belong in the mens.
    We cannot keep churning up our norms to satisfy every new minority with a megaphone.
     
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  11. Pollycy

    Pollycy Well-Known Member

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    Well, we've completely reoriented nearly everything on network TV, including all the commercials and promos, to amplify the Black segment of the population, which is only ~14%. Blacks are (and always have been) the group with the lowest income and the lowest disposable income -- so -- why the over-reputation for advertising and/or promotional 'mindshare' on TV...?! Link: https://www.epi.org/blog/racial-dis...-unchanged-amid-strong-income-growth-in-2019/

    I point that out to illustrate that we are certainly becoming a population that dotes on minorities of ALL kinds, racial, ethnic, and the sexually-'confused'. So, as any contemporary advertising executive can tell you, we need to throw money at it... right...?!

    [​IMG]. :omfg:
     
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  12. Seth Bullock

    Seth Bullock Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I would not allow transgender male-to-female athletes compete in women's sports.

    They could compete in men's sports or in transgender sports, but not women's sports.
     
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  13. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    There's no option for those that believe and feel they are the opposite sex.
    I don't want anyone who simply wants to self ID for kicks to be treated as such. But are true in their identity. Option 2 didn't state it correctly. IMO.

    So, other is the only option.
     
  14. Kranes56

    Kranes56 Banned

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    You could just let people use the bathrooms without fear of harassment for using them. Like any person has the right to.
     
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  15. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    What about a female to male trans that hasn't transitioned.

    ...
    But at an Ivy League swim meet Saturday, a Yalie, Iszac Henig, defeated Thomas in both the women’s 100- and 400-yard freestyle races, the Daily Mail reported.

    Henig, who is transitioning from female to male, set a record for the women’s 50-yard freestyle, the outlet said.

    Henig was able to compete on the women’s team because she had yet to start testosterone treatment, according to a June piece in The New York Times.
    https://nypost.com/2022/01/08/lia-thomas-defeated-by-fellow-transgender-swimmer-iszac-henig/

    ...
    kicked butt on the m-f trans.
     
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  16. 19Crib

    19Crib Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I was in the Chicago airport a few years ago, and a dad walked into the men’s restroom with two teenaged daughters in tow. It seemed like business as usual for them. I was on my way out so I didn’t get to see the reaction.
     
  17. Kranes56

    Kranes56 Banned

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    My guess was? Nobody cared. It's a bathroom in a busy airport.
     
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  18. Seth Bullock

    Seth Bullock Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Perhaps there should be two categories.

    "Women" - only people who were born female. No transgenders either direction.
    "All" - Anyone could compete in that category. Men who were born male. Female-to-male trans. Male-to-female trans. Even women who were born female if they wanted to.

    So if Henig has not started testosterone treatment, her size and strength is not affected by her transgenderism, right? And she beat the male-to-female Thomas, right?

    I'm not surprised necessarily. I was a swimmer in high school. I know that competitive swimming is part strength and conditioning and part skill. My guess is that Henig was in super shape, but more importantly, her swimming technique (her skill) was better than Thomas'. Any strength advantage he had over Henig was outweighed by Henig's superior skill.

    What I don't like about Thomas competing in women's sports is that when the skill level is equal, "she" will have an advantage in strength, and that strength was built up while he was fully male. That's not fair to biological women.
     
  19. yardmeat

    yardmeat Well-Known Member

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    Best way to solve the "conundrum" IMO: just get over the fact that trans people exist.
     
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  20. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    Being dissatisfied with one's gender and wishing to change it doesn't change it. Trans genders should be ignored. We can provide some compassion for their misery I suppose but we shouldn't change our lives because of them. It is their choice.
     
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  21. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    There was a pic of each in the link I provided.
    It appeared, if I had my names straight, the f-m trans had a more muscle tone/mass.

    Then there are woman like this one, who naturally produces very high amount of testosterone and have very male looking tone/mass.
    She was banned from competition and forced to take testosterone reducing hormones until they fell below some level.
    ...
    Caster Semenya is a winner. The 29-year-old South African is the two-time women’s 800m Olympic champion, a three-time 800m world champion and a double Commonwealth Games middle distance gold medallist. To wrap those figures in further context, when Semenya won the Doha Diamond League 800m in May 2019, it was her 30th consecutive victory over the distance.

    Put simply, when fit, in-form and free to run without distraction, Semenya is almost unbeatable over the 800m. But these are not circumstances often afforded to Semenya, who lives with a condition in which her body produces a much higher level of testosterone than most other women.
    https://olympics.com/en/athletes/caster-semenya

    ...
    Strong type women in female sports has been an issue almost since the beginning of women's sports.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2022
  22. Reasonablerob

    Reasonablerob Well-Known Member

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    It's not the trans people whom we fear being harassed?
     
  23. Lindis

    Lindis Banned

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    I agree!
    And I am male.
    Not cis-male - just male.
    I am not cis-anything either! :)
     
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  24. Lindis

    Lindis Banned

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    Good point!
    Being dis-satisfied with being human does not make one an angel or a plant etc ....
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2022
  25. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    As a child I used to think it would be nice to be an albatross. I decided against the surgery.
     

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