How you can help correct the mistake made Nov 3, 2020

I think you have to look at the last two elections as elections based on personality. Independents who Trump won in 2016, lost in 2020 are political junkies like those on this site. most won't pay a bit of attention to politics until an election nears. Then they'll make up their minds based on their perspectives of the candidates, whether or not they like or dislike the candidates.

Back in 2016 when Trump won, 25% of all Americans disliked and didn't want neither Trump nor Clinton to become their next president. This included 54% of all independents.

https://news.gallup.com/opinion/pol...mericans-dislike-presidential-candidates.aspx

for them it was Rude, obnoxious, uncouth vs. aloof, elitists, know it all. Rude, obnoxious, uncouth won the independents 46-42 with 12% voting third party against both Trump and Clinton. Which simply means Trump lost 54% of independents, Hillary's 42 plus the 12% who voted against both.

2020 was different, it was obnoxious, rude, uncouth vs. bland, old, uninspiring, but behaved and acted like an adult instead of a spoiled four year old brat. 2020, bland, old, uninspiring grownup won. I think politics took a backseat to personality in both elections for independents. To show their dislike of Trump and his childish antics and schoolyard bullying tactics, independents went for Biden 54-41 with 5% voting against both major party candidates. That's 59% of independents voting against Trump, Biden's 54% plus the 5% who voted against both Trump and Biden.

https://www.cnn.com/election/2020/exit-polls/president/national-results

Independents haven't changed their view of Trump.l 57% had an unfavorable view of him in 2016, 60% in 2018 and 61% in 2020, today 58% of independents still view Trump unfavorably or dislike him as a person. History shows folks usually don't vote for someone they dislike.

I'd say it's time for the GOP to move on. That is if they want to win elections. The Republican Party is still the smaller of the two major parties, they can't win national elections without winning independents. A good example of this is 2016, Trump won independents by 4 points, but still lost the popular vote by 2 points. In the three deciding states, Trump won independents in Pennsylvania 48-41 in 2016, lost independents in Pennsylvania 52-44 in 2020. In Michigan Trump won the independent vote 52-36 in 2016, lost the independent vote 51-45 in 2020, Wisconsin, Trump won independents 50-40 in 2016, lost independents 54-42 in 2020. Independents gave Trump the presidency in 2016, took it away in 2020.

Bottom line, ignore independents at your own peril, that is if you're interested in winning elections. If not, stick with Trump.

 

That is like telling me long ago to get rid of Babe Ruth because he had off field habits that were then repugnant.
Trump is still a winner.

Independents to me are very confused. They vote as the wind twirls them around So confused they will vote any kind of way.

 

They come with an unsubscribe part. I unsubscribe.

 

That is not what independents do. Independents look at the candidates and pick the best one without taking party loyalty in to the equation. This is how everyone should vote and our country would be far better off if they did

 

Presidential elections are akin to beauty contests or popularity contests for independents.They're not even close to being political junkies. So they'll vote their whims, their perceptions and the like. In Trump's case, it was voting their dislike of him. Trump was a very easy person to dislike. His very rude, childish behavior defeated him. You can either acknowledge that or not.

I think if Trump had the personality of a Reagan, a Bill Clinton or even an Obama, he'd probably have beaten Biden by 10 points or more. As it was, Trump spent 4 years grating independents the wrong way, making them grind their teeth by his very unpresidential behavior. Politics simply took a backseat to his very obnoxious, rude personality. Like it or not, it was his in your face persona that defeated him. Not Biden, but Trump defeated Trump. Biden stayed hidden in the basement, rarely coming out of it. He let Trump hog the spotlight, dominate the media and let Trump be Trump which reminded independents why they disliked him. Biden didn't give independents one reason to dislike him. I suppose you could call him the stealth candidate.

 

Wow, the snowflakes have really got the Orangeman bad machine cranked up

 

As long as his better personality would have been associated with effective governing, I would agree. On top of his very obnoxious and exhausting personality, he tended to bring about more harm than good for the country. He had nothing substantive to run on in 2020, no real case to make for his continuing to be in office beyond the heights reached by the stock market through the majority of his term, and that was of no great benefit to me or most other working class people (the vast majority of the country). He was never humble or open to criticism and willing to admit mistakes, either, which was a warning sign that he would never learn and improve.

Then there was the blatant corruption and dishonesty with his self-dealing and constant assault on the truth and the media. That starts to stray into "bad personality" territory, but it also has practical implications since it represents a significant threat to truth in reporting and, if allowed to continue, a threat to the rule of law itself. Trump always seemed to be trying to gain control over the media and the information to which the public had access, and just always seemed to be held back by the law and by officials, too many of whom he had the power to appoint and remove, who upheld the law in spite of his directives. With most Republican senators and representatives acting as enablers, and with the right-wing media (which is an abomination and should not exist) acting as his unofficial propaganda outlets, there was far too great a danger in the long term of laws being changed. Hell, even as it is we have just seen these (R)-branded authoritarians enact an unconstitutional state law trying to force social media companies not to ban politicians, trying to give themselves special status and protection so that they can lie as much and as dangerously as they please and not be censored for it by a private entity, which ironically is protected from interference of this kind by them (the government) by the First Amendment. How much worse would it have been to have this paranoid tyrant in office for another four years? What more damage might he have caused to, say, the Department of Justice and the freedom of the press? What kind of harm might he have done to elections by pressuring everyone from members of congress on down to state and local officials, or by repeating antidemocratic lies such as he has been doing anyway? He is too much like Maduro or Lukashenko to have in the nation's highest office, where he might, with the help of crooks like Roger Stone and Steve Bannon, an army of cowardly congressional henchmen, and legions of loyal gun-toting thugs who only listen to him because they have a disturbingly messianic regard for him as some savior of the nation, find a way to stay in power illegally and end our republic as we know it. Lukashenko was legitimately elected to office in Belarus once upon a time, but he went on to end democracy there in a very insidious way, to where he was able to do away with term limits in 2004 and is now "elected" by 90% or so in sham elections. This **** could happen anywhere, including here, if such men are given an opportunity.

So, in fact, when considering Trump's personality, it is important to bear in mind that such a warped personality as his is not only a problem for being legitimately re-elected, but a problem for maintaining a democratic system of government. I feel that a system such as ours can't have someone like him in such a position of power and survive it indefinitely, because such men invariably corrupt government over time to keep themselves in power and give themselves more of it, which, if for no other reason, they do simply to stay alive and out of prison, since they know they are playing by their own Machiavellian rules and are in therefore always in danger of being removed by force. Hence the inevitable takeovers of media, intimidation or murder of journalists and political opponents, and so on. Trump represented this kind of threat to this country, and it is because of his personality. He is not just rude and disgusting, but fundamentally corrupt and evil as a person of authority. He has the personality type of a dictator.

 

The problem with unsubscribe button is that usually works for the original site you signed up with but for the companies that buy the email address all the unsubscribe does is verify your email address is active so they sell it to others. Have you ever gotten emails from companies that you never dealt with before?

 

You're correct, not Trump's only problem, but one that played very big with independents. Independents didn't like Trump from the get go. Trump was one lucky SOB to be matched against Hillary Clinton in 2016, she was even more disliked by independents than Trump. Not that they liked or wanted either one to become president. Both rubbed independents the wrong way, Trump with his rude, obnoxious, very unpresidential behavior, Clinton with her aloofness, elitism and know it all attitude. There has never been two more disliked and unwanted candidates ever or since Gallup began to keep track of these things.

Highest to lowest favorable/unfavorable ratings of each major party presidential candidate.

Favorable/unfavorable

1956 Eisenhower 84/12%

1964 LBJ 81/13%

1976 Carter 81/16%

1960 JFK 80/14%

1960 Nixon 79/16%

1968 Nixon 79/22%

1976 Ford 79/20%

1972 Nixon 76/21%

1968 Humphrey 72/28%

1984 Reagan 70/30%

1980 Carter 68/32%

1984 Mondale 66/34%

1980 Reagan 64/31%

1992 Bill Clinton 64/33%

2008 Obama 62/35%

2012 Obama 62/37%

1956 Stevenson 61/31%

2004 G.W. Bush 61/39%

2008 McCain 60/35%

1992 G.H.W. Bush 59/40%

2000 G.W. Bush 58/38%

2004 Kerry 57/40%

1996 Bill Clinton 56/42%

1988 G.H.W. Bush 56/39%

2000 Gore 55/43%

2012 Romney 55/43%

1972 McGovern 55/41%

1996 Dole 54/45%

1988 Dukakis 53/42%

2020 Biden 52/46%

1964 Goldwater 43/47%

2020 Trump 43/56%

2016 Hillary Clinton 38/56%

2016 Donald Trump 36/60%


2016, it was like both major parties went digging way down into the barrel to find the two most disliked and unwanted candidates available. Biden was a safe candidate to beat Trump in 2020, the Dems went with him, probably because he was safe and could attract independents to vote for him whereas many of the other candidates couldn't.

 

Jesus will rise from the dead next month too, I mean the month after that, no, I mean the next month, no no, I meant the month after that... and on and on it goes... keep the faith

 

Instead of wasting time fighting an election that is already over, your energies should be used on fighting for your beliefs in 2022 and 2024. Otherwise, you look like tin foil hats and actually hurting your chances in 2022 and 2024. The left pulled every trick in the book for four years to get rid of Trump and nothing worked. There's a lesson in there you should learn. The past is history. The future isn't written yet.

 

She probably has a picture of Trump tattooed on her ass.

 

They spoke loud and clear last night when they rejected Elder and Trump.

 

I am not Senator Wendy Rogers. I simply am the messenger.

 

CA is stuck with an incompetent Governor.

 

I have.

 

I will say again.
Trump as a package is what the Media sold to us.
Trump as a person is a very nice man.
But the Media turned on him and simply disposed of him.

 

Trump has never been known as a "very nice man", he has long and well documented history of being a dick.

 

Trump in person is a very nice human being. It is widely reported but of course not by WApo or the NY Times.

 

We like him. He won by 25 points three years ago and beat the GOP recall by 30 points last night. If the Republicans quit running right wing nit wits, maybe they can win here someday however in their present state they can only win a few Congressional seats out in the sticks.

 

Give us your take on Biden? Was his sniffing children ever a problem for you? Is his steady state of confusion any problem you see?

 

Clearly you are not paying attention to Newsom. I voted in the 2018 election for his opponent. I am super pleased to have moved out of CA. Governor Little here in Idaho is a fine man and administrator.

 

Glad you like Idaho. You fit right in there. I am a Californian and not moving to some backwoods redneck paradise. Enjoy the winter. I will be surfing and playing golf...

 

You are correct. I do fit in here. I was born and raised in CA and spent almost all of my life in that formerly good state. Are you aware that other than the illegals, the state is losing it's people?

You do not know Idaho at all I see. Idaho is very modern. Sounds as if you are a quite young person. When I was young, Republicans ran CA. Then the Democrats moved in like locusts.

 

Yeah, that is the problem. It is probably OK to try unsubscribing to companies that you actually signed on with or actually subscribed to their mailings but when you get emails from unknown sources it is better not to click the unsubscribe. Often by clicking it you just confirmed to them that your email is active and can now be packaged and sold to other spammers. Once you get on these list they just multiply and soon your inbox is packed with spam.